11yo dd cutting herself/ attention seeking/ need advice please

[Pixels300]

At around age 8, dd started asking if she was safe at bedtime and asking if we loved her.

Two years ago she went through a phase of having sore tummies and saying she couldn't go to school. Then she started saying she sometimes felt like ending her own life would be best for everyone. We took her to the doctor and they recommend we spoke to the school and spent more quality one to one time with her. We did and things improved a bit, but she still constantly asks if we love her and if she's safe.

On Thursday she went to the park with a friend, she was late coming home, something she's been warned about before. So I told her she wasn't aloud to go to the park on her own the next day after school, but we would do something else instead.

Friday morning she had a massive meltdown, refused to eat her breakfast and told dh she was going to starve herself. DH said that would take weeks and wasn't a good idea because we love her. She then told him she had thought about stabbing herself that morning. I walked her to school and I'm sorry to say I didn't handle it well at all. I think I told her that if she was going to be that dramatic over one day of not going out with friends then she needed to just come home on time next time.

But Dh was a bit more grounded and suggested I phoned the doctor for advice as she'd been frantic. Doc wanted to see her, so booked an appointment that afternoon. We went and DD told her everything, Doc suggested a diary and talking to the school. Made an appointment for next week and said it could be escalated to Calms if things didn't improve.

We went home, she had a fight with DS and scratched him. I told them both off for fighting as they had both been physical. She then went into her room and used the nail scissors to cut small sections from her wrist.

My friend came round to visit and she told her. She is amazing and has knowledge of mental health issues/teen issues and seemed to calm dd, then they told me. Friend suggested I take DD for NLP therapy and call the doctor to escalate things on Monday.

DH came home early and we spent the evening talking to dd and I could see how happy she was at being the center of attention. She kept asking us how we felt about it and were we angry.

This morning she hoped into bed with me and gave me a big hug. She asked how I was feeling and I said okay and asked her. She said she might not be able to stop herself cutting herself again and when I said that frightened me, she said the was frightened of what she might do to herself.

When I said I needed a little lie down today as I hadn't slept last night, she said she wasn't sure if she'd be able to stop herself cutting herself if I was asleep.

She keeps asking if I've told Nana and what will Nana think and can she tell her because it'll be better coming from her.

She went to a good friends house for a while this afternoon and she asked me to tell the Mum about it and planned on asking her what she thought about it.

I'm going to call the doctor on Monday morning and get help, but for now, does anyone know what to do? I'm stuck because if horrific and she is enjoying the attention she gets when she's saying these things.

Today I have tried to give her positive attention for normal every day things and made a plan to cook dinner together tonight (she loves this).

We are a fairly happy family, both children are so very loved. We have normal stresses like money and work, but nothing bad going on. My side of the family has allot of mental health issues and yes dd has spent time with these people.

Oh and I should say, everyone else thinks she's massively confident and has a huge personality.

Feeling overwhelmed, lost and so frightened for my child.

Any advice please.

My dd has had snxiety issues for a long time. I have a son, too.

I think the mistake I've made with dd is getting sucked in and trying to fix everything.,often to the detriment to ds.

You cannot make her feel ok. That comes from her. Guide her into acquiring problem solving skills herself and chase up your gp for a camhs referal before it gets worse. My dd worst time was after joining secondary school.I it.s a big change

Loki, thank you, I am terrified and angry, angry at myself for things getting to this point. If you met my dd you would think she was the most confident and strong young person ever. She’s got a huge personality and I always knew I’d have to channel it. Team sports and her drama classes are everything to her and it works most of the time.
I’d like to ask you what do I say when she asks me how I feel? This keeps coming up, she keeps asking how I’d feel if she does it again. I have said I’m worried about her, I feel confused and all I want is for her to know how much I love her. But she keeps insisting I don’t care, she tells me I should give up on her because I’m angry all the time. I don’t know where this comes from. Yes I get frustrated at her sometimes like I’m sure all parents do and I do talk firmly to her when she misbehaves. But I don’t shout and scream, I don’t put her down or belittle her. She is told she is loved, she loves to be hugged and we have special times when I sit and really listen to her. I just don’t know what she wants to hear.

For those who are saying I need to stop calling it attention seeking. You are right. I have never said this to her and I was describing the reaction to her behaviour and the fact she needs to be heard. I know it’s a cry for help and will call it that from now. She needs to be acknowledged and I believe is seeking a reaction rather than attention. I just don’t know what kind of reaction I’m meant to give. Since she’s cut herself she has been showered with love and has been the center of our attention. And yes thebeesknees poor ds was looking a bit lost tonight, so I held his hand while he went to sleep and made sure he told me about his day and how he was feeling. He’s quite confused and just kept asking if I was okay.

So yes, no more trips to the park. I’ve taken the laptop and I’ve switched off the data on her phone. She only has the phone when she’s out and it’s my old iPhone so I can use the find my iPhone app and see where she is. She has a habit of loosing track of time, she thinks that time doesn’t really apply to her and that’s something we need to work on.

On the advice of my friend who was here Friday, I’ve found a clinic that works with young people. They do NLP and lots of other therapies, but initially it’ll be an introductory meeting and they’ll decide what she needs. This is just what I’ve got from the website.

There hasn’t been any major traumas in her life. I had PND with both children, but was medicated and had counselling, not sure if that would cause issues. There was the death of her grandfather when she was 6, which was painful for all of us. She’s also definitely heard and witnessed the mental health issues on my side of the family, she’s experienced the way we’ve coped with those and the way we’ve dropped everything to support others. She is a talker and has always told me everything, I don’t think there could be anything else, but maybe there’s more and I don’t know.

Thank you all for your replies, hearing this happens to others doesn’t make it better, but makes me feel she’s not alone.

After I’d put ds to bed she started to insult me and tried to get me to loose my temper. But I just lay down next to her and cuddled her to sleep. I’ve had a sleep too. So now I’m awake and going to do some more research.

@gamerchick

I didn’t realise you were very dim. I’ll define ‘proper help’ for you shall I? Can you understand the term ‘professional help?’

Is that a bit easier for you? Have you tried netmums? I think it would suit you.

Sounds awful OP, no real advice other than don't waste money on NLP. If you have the funds I would be paying for a psychiatrist. She clearly has something going on in her head and needs to talk to someone.

Finding good help can be really hard. If you can afford to, go private, but be prepared to go to more than one.

I've always found @gamerchick invaluable on the MH boards personally and using netmums as a veiled insult is rather dated.

OP the nap thing is worrying and she does need help but there is a few disorders that seem to be almost seem to be seen as cool at the minute amongst my DD's (12) age group at the minute and it scares me.

Some of the traits she is showing are similar to pupils Ive taught with attachment disorder. She is trying to push you to see if you give up on her. You did brilliantly by cuddling her to sleep instead. As you said you had PND, it might be worth doing some reading. Most cases of attachment disorder are extreme and come from a babies need not being met. Im not suggesting that this is the case for you at all, but there are some theories that suggests that the initial bond between primary carer and child do play a big part in setting a childs emotional clock for the rest of their lives. It might help to read about it, even if you just rule it out.

Regarding your question; my advice would be to ask her why she keeps asking you how you feel. Gently ask her what answer does she want to hear? Keep your answer the same and brief. 'Im scared, but determind. I love you and we are going to get through this. I am your mum, I will still do the normal mum things like moan and tell you off, like I do with your brother, but it isnt because of this. I will never tell you off because of this.' You might need to applogise for when you got angry the other day, acknowledge to her that you were wrong and explain to her that you are human.
To the posters who keep chastising the op for using the term 'attention seeking'. There are lots of different reasons as to why children self harm. Some harm because they can not verbalize their pain. Some because they hate a part of their body so seek to mutilate it. Some zone out and struggle to recall actually doing it. For many, it is a secretive act that occured when a young person is trying to control their environment or deal with trauma. For some, it is an action to get you to notice. They talk openly, show you and seem to enjoy the hubub created. It is important to acknowledge that they ARE seeking attention. Firstly, because if they are ignored they will up the ante and do worse to themselves. Secondly, because the issue behind that need for attention is key - that is how you begin to put support in. Thirdly, it is important to understand that the secondary behaviour - the discussions, desire to tell everyone, 'if you do that I might hurt myself' type behaviours can mean a parent is held to emotional ransom. The parent needs to know how to handle it in order to help the child. Part of self harm is about control, and this type of behaviour is an extension of that because the op's dd is trying to control others. The op never dismissed the self harm as attention seeking, she listed the fact that her dd is enjoying and wanting more attention as a further symptom. The OP is absolutely right to do so. The councilor will need all of that information to help the child.

“I've always found @gamerchick invaluable on the MH boards personally and using netmums as a veiled insult is rather dated“

Quite.

I think you’ve rather missed the point 30hours, which was a nudge to balance your post with some practical advice rather than just appearing to launch an unhelpful and general insult at the OP. Also, ‘getting the right kind of help’ isn’t actually that easy. Did you mean talking to their GP? Which the OP is already doing? Or CAHMS? Which is massively over subscribed and jettisons all but the worst cases. Or this NLP stuff which sounds a bit too trend based to me, though an individual therapist might be great, overall the area isn’t one I’d be seeking out to treat a vulnerable child.

Soooo, as you can see it merits a bit more discussion than a screech of a judgemental insult. But that’s a lot less fun isn’t it?

Regarding attachment issues, this might be helpful:

www.newportacademy.com/resources/mental-health/how-to-recognize-and-heal-teen-attachment-disorder/

@WellThisIsShit
I assumed a group of adults would be able to decipher the meaning of ‘proper help’- it appears you’re not quite there yet.

What happened when she was 8, when it started?

Her anxiety is growing - please get professional help.

In my option love bombing doesnt help long term (it makes the child feel good/loved but the reasons behind the anxiety need to be addressed).

A very structured and calm home life, where it's predictable, tidy and not hectic is really good for children who are anxious. Children really do need boundaries and to know that the parents are in charge (and work together as a unified front - af least in front of the children anyway).

Positive reinforcement but also punishment for behaviour or actions - agree what you expect upfront though.

*gamerchick

I didn’t realise you were very dim. I’ll define ‘proper help’ for you shall I? Can you understand the term ‘professional help?*’

Is that a bit easier for you? Have you tried netmums? I think it would suit you

Aw right in the feels man

OP maybe ask her school to get the early intervention team in for an assessment. This needs to be nipped in the bud before it escalates.

You also need to learn the tools to handle the emotional blackmail part of it before she potentially moves on to the overdoses and swallowing foreign objects. This is very important for you, don't forget about you while this is going on. Especially as you have another child who will feel a bit pushed out, don't be scared to call in the troops to support you.

Start with the early intervention team though and the stay emotionless when she shows you her wounds but practical advice upthread. I really fear that she wants to tell people and talk about it though, I've watched it start like that before.

I want to tell you to ground her and take away her internet but that's my projection. You need to get help for yourself and learn the tools. Don't forget about your other child as well, it'll be traumatic for him to watch this happen.

@WellThisIsShit
I assumed a group of adults would be able to decipher the meaning of ‘proper help’- it appears you’re not quite there yet

But what does 'proper help' look like? You've obviously had vast experiences where you've forgotten to mention the services to start with. Where does the OP go for help?

You can't just come in with a 'whats wrong with you' like she's doing it all wrong. What did you do with your child when this hapoened as it obviously worked if you can be so scathing to a mother who is scared and you can snarl at me all you want, I'm not arsed

I do agree with the above that love bombing isn't helpful long term but might come in handy for any siblings, it's so important that they aren't forgotten about.

Pixels please ignore the stupider posts, that have failed to switch on the empathy button this morning.

I’d look twice at the field of NLP, I’m not convinced it’s a reputable enough field for child therapy is it? I may be wrong, but I thought it was a bit dodgy with claims of persuading others to do what you want them to do? Maybe that’s more about the way it’s been applied, but I picture business coaching and advertising rather than anything else? Happy to be wrong though...

Anyway, back to your daughter. Such an awful situation for you, and her, and all the family.

Such good advice from another poster on how to react to the self harm with calmness, and less of a reaction than you’d expect, so it doesn’t end up as a high drama feeding moment. Then give more of the right kinds of attention in every other part of life as she clearly needs it - whilst you find a professional and work with them. Hopefully they can help target exactly what it is she is missing, and work with her and you so with time you all can find ways to ‘fill her up’ emotionally. It does sound like a lot of the love/ attention/ security/ attachment or something pretty fundamental is going straight through her at the moment for some reason. Like she’s got a sieve in some parts of her ‘love jar’ instead of a firm base (or attention jar/ security or whatever is the issue).

Taking this analogy a bit further, this also means you can’t fix it on your own, because no matter how much attention you give, if she’s got a sieve / leaky puncture going on in there, it will continue to leak out. That’s not to say you should give up trying at all (!), but maybe, you can realise you can’t do it all for her. It will take you and her working on the issues to help her. Not just you trying to make it all better.

I wonder why she wants you to be angry? Probably loads of reasons... but here’s two I can think of:

1. Because then she has a ‘right’ to feel sad / rejected / insecure as she does inside? Because if you are angry at her, then it makes sense she is hurt? Like a Q&A always go together, if she thinks she’s the A, then you have to be the Q? Also, she gets to blame you, and it’s always easier to blame your mum!
2. Projection? Is she the one who’s angry all the time? And because she doesn’t want to be, or can’t cope with it, she’s pushing it onto you? Again, it’s a lot easier if it’s mums fault!

Lastly, I have no idea if anything I’m thinking about is helpful but I’m sharing in case it is. Mainly I hope you know you have my support, as a random woman on mumsnet. And lots of others on here like me.

@WellThisIsShit
I assumed a group of adults would be able to decipher the meaning of ‘proper help’- it appears you’re not quite there yet.

Ha! So, you thought you’d come in, leave a few insults around the place then leave us group of adults to clear up the tinsy ickle problem you’ve left for us then?

And you thought it was super simple to ‘get professional help’ did you?

You didn’t realise that getting ‘proper help’ is a bit more difficult than just snapping your fingers and snarling insults at people on a very serious and sensitive thread? I see.

You’re making it clear that you have no experience or insight into child mental health.

Yet you are happy to take up bandwidth on this thread where someone could actually do with some practical help and emotional support.

Well, if you are shouting the odds at me and Gamerchick, you aren’t being rude to the OP, so I feel I’ve accomplished something with my morning.