Young toddler routine and group ‘holiday’

[User878929333]

We’re currently on ‘holiday’ visiting my in laws. It’s an annual thing as they live a flight away and otherwise we’d never see them.

I’m frustrated yet again, because they cannot seem to grasp that a baby/toddler needs to nap at relatively fixed times each day, and has a bedtime that can’t be moved hours later to suit their own plans. We are now on DC3 so we’ve had almost ten years of “oh she’ll just fall asleep when she’s tired”, “I know you say she’s hungry at 12pm but we have lunch at 1.30pm so she can play until then”, “no one eats before 8pm here, all these other kids just stay up until 11pm, she’ll just sleep in later”.

Our kids have never “just fallen asleep” when they are tired. They just get totally overtired and hysterical. They never sleep later if they go to bed late, they just wake at 6pm exhausted. I don’t know many kids who can wait almost two hours after their usual lunchtime for a meal.

So we either have an exhausted, miserable baby, or huffy in-laws who are cross at how precious and inflexible we are. DH is stuck between a rock and a hard place. I’m up all night with the kids anyway as none of them sleep well, so I’m exhausted and just want a bit of peace in the day and all I’m doing is placating a baby that needs more rest! Or alternatively putting my foot down and being a kill joy. Everyone wants to do everything together (apart from me!)

How do others manage this? Do I just suck it up? It’s no holiday...

OP you have my sympathy - they sound like my in-laws too- this is why we're never going on holiday with them ever again. They make a massive fuss about us going away together. Once we get there they refuse to make any changes to their own lives for the children and I'm left struggling.

I think you should just do what's best for you and the kids , and they can do what's best for themselves. Good luck!!

Maybe DH should take them on his own next year?

You can stay at home and read books

DH should be taking charge at night then if he's so happy for this "flexibility" to continue.

You sleep in your own room with ear plugs. Job done.

The following day when DC are totally out of sorts, let DH take the lead again. Rinse and repeat until he gets the fucking picture and comes on side!!

I could've written your exact pretty. No solution but feel your pain.

My babies and toddlers were totally inflexible too. They couldn't bear to be out late. They woke early, lunched at noon, and were ready for their evening meal at 5pm. The oldest could just not cope with going out in the evening. Everyone kept telling me the kids would be fine but they just were not. I'd have loved to go out with them in the early evening but they simply couldn't hack it.
My 15 year old still wakes up at 6am and is normally asleep by 9.30pm. It's just how he came!
Don't be bullied.

We always went with the flow, I've never let having kids stop me from going out tbh. They will fall asleep in the pushchair, and do adapt really quickly. Many countries do eat much later and kids manage just fine - I have great photos of mine fast asleep in the double buggy whilst we ate out on holiday, and also fast asleep on coats under tables at weddings - didn't harm them, they are grown now

Sorry, you do sound a bit inflexible. Can the routines not relax a bit?

I’m afraid we prioritised nap time after a few disasters on our first holiday with our inlaws. They thought she’d sleep in the buggy and all toddlers are flexible on holiday etc. They have now learnt and our second holiday was much more fun. My toddler can cope with the odd late night and still be quite nice but she needs her afternoon nap for at least 2 hours or she turns into the devil child.

I always envied people whose DC could stay up late, have no routine, and stay happy. Certainly didn't happen with my three!
So I ignored the adult whinging and stuck to my DC's routine and other people just had to accept that my DC and me wouldn't be going out at certain times and would be eating at our usual time.

Your toddlers are flexible. Your child could drop a nap. Your child adapted quickly on holiday.

All people are different and so are all children.

I had one that would and one that wouldn't. Parents know their own children best.

I’m confused. Do your kids sleep well at night at home?

We are lucky that our toddler is fairly flexible (and frankly he has a lateish routine at home anyway and is a pants sleeper anyway!). But he obviously does need to eat earlier / sooner after getting up than the adults. What we found worked really well was taking a gro-blind and basically keeping him on UK time on our last holiday with the PIL.
We were an hour ahead, so he ate lunch about 1 or 1.30 (12-12.30 UK time), had his nap after that as normal then dinner at a bit after 7 ish rather than 6ish and was asleep by around 9.30 instead of 8.30. He then slept (with his standard wake ups) until 8ish - gro blind meant he had no idea he was in a different time zone and everything being an hour later worked well for the adults. The late starts meant we were out late in the morning so PIL walked into the village and got a coffee then came back for us later.

I think you need to compromise. Put them to bed early if they need it but I don’t see why they can’t have a snack and a later lunch?

Yes my MIL was like this too. She just couldn't seem to understand that PIL's normal lunchtime was a lot later than my DC were used to, so they'd be grumpy and hungry if they had to wait that long. I tried to explain it to her so many times and she would just say "but that would be very early to have lunch" every time - arghh! For you maybe but not for them!! Good luck with it OP.

They are all poor sleepers at home too. If they go to bed overtired they seem even more unsettled and wake up more. If the toddler has had poor naps (she’ll only do 30 mins in the buggy) she is screaming with tiredness by 6pm. Trying to keep her up until 9pm to fit with adults is a nightmare.

I have been flexible in delaying the morning nap by two hours to fit in, or agreeing to a late dinner. But the next day the kids need a recovery day. There’s no give and take.

Before I had kids I thought they’d just have to fit in, and fully expected to be all Latin with toddlers happily scooting round a bar until midnight. I’d love to be free and easy, believe me

Yeah I love these posts saying ‘well my children were flexible’ blah blah. Do you think we wouldn’t prefer it if ours ‘just’ fell asleep in the pushchair or ‘just’ got on with it? They don’t.
I’m happy to adjust my routine slightly for a couple of years worth of holidays to make sure that they’re well rested and not miserable. We can still eat out etc on holiday, just nice long lunches rather than late evening meals etc. It’s more pleasurable for everyone. It’s just that MIL thinks we should entirely adjust their routine to that of a Spanish toddler for one week, just because that’s what Spanish toddlers do.

Can’t you just eat earlier with DC and put them to bed then do things with ILs at other times. Or take it in turns, one of you put DC to bed and the other joins ILs for a meal out.

Their comments must be really annoying but other than ignore them or not holiday with them, I’m not sure what you can do.

Gah! People expecting children to fit with their timetable annoys me!
Dd is only 4 months old but we have already agreed that she gets sleep and meals at her pace. She is otherwise grumbly and upset.
In laws and my dad appear to remember our baby hoods through rose tinted specs where we happily napped when wanted and were always jolly. I suspect that’s because our parents were constantly pissed and fed us E numbers that enabled us to party until we crashed!

Now saying no to late dinners, visits during nap time ( why would anyone pick up a sleeping baby for a cuddle?) or anything else that will result in tears!

Grandparents often forget what it's like. When I visit my mum with my kids lunch is always too late for the kids. I always bring lunch and when I get the why can't they wait, I just say they are hungry now. Mum always tries to parent over the top of me saying oh they will be ok, I just say no and do what the kids need. I don't know if you can be assertive and say no this is what I'm doing and just don't respond to the millions of questions. Another idea is tell your husband you can't cope and you are going home. You might get some support or maybe get to go home!

SoyDora, yep the stock phrase from MIL is “you just do what the Spanish do” like the kids can suddenly just have a bedtime four hours later with no consequences and nap on command because we’re in her house

I think this thread shows if you have flexible kids who fall asleep easily, it’s impossible to imagine how difficult it is to have kids who become hysterical messes if they aren’t put down at the right time. It makes every holiday with the ILs a stressful test of the limits of my ability to cope with over tired children.

Definitely been there and when night time sleep goes to pot it's usually blamed on being away from home when me and DH know full well it's overtiredness. Luckily me and DH are on the same page so last holiday put our foot down, we kept to UK times with DD which then allowed a bit of compromise. Still didn't keep PIL happy but after me snapping one day when I was told I looked tired they did seem to be trying. Still get tea too late at theirs though so take emergency food for DD.

It makes every holiday with the ILs a stressful test of the limits of my ability to cope with over tired children.
In the nicest possible way, if you know your DC do not cope with a change of routine, why are you not putting them to bed at their usual time?!

Just say to ILs ‘right, DC are tired now, we’re off to get them to bed, will see you at breakfast/the beach tomorrow, have a lovely evening’. When they go on that DC should be more flexible, etc ‘yes, I know some kids can stay up late but mine can’t manage doing that. Goodnight’ etc.
Yes, it’s annoying they don’t understand but surely it’s more stressful keeping your DC up than it is telling your ILs they are going to bed.

It sounds awful, I wouldn't go away with them.

Ah, I knew it would be Spain my mum and husband live there and we had similar issues when visiting with small dc. My mum just can't seem to grasp that, no, my children will not sleep in later if they go to bed late! Ds in particular is a stickler for routine and gets very unsettled out of it. And neither of them were ever the kind who fall asleep in pushchairs whilst the adults party either! The only time ds did sleep in a pushchair while we ate was because it turned out he was ill and promptly threw up everywhere shortly afterwards!

Fwiw, mum was a teacher in a Spanish school and said that actually Spanish children can't cope with the late nights either and are permanently knackered in school. They sleep most of the weekends to catch up apparently! We avoid staying with them when we visit for this reason and now they know it's fit in with our (loose) schedule or do your own thing and we'll meet up later.

My mum and her husband live there...not mine!