11yo STILL not sleeping - at wits end, suggestions please

[Krustyandthekids]

My 11yo DS has had problems sleeping since infancy. We have tried EVERYTHING (apart from prescription medicine) - relaxation, sleeping in with his bro, calming music, reading before bed... etc etc.

He's still bad (I'd even go as far as saying he's getting worse) and I'm looking for support/sympathy/suggestions please.

He doesn't watch telly / play on his tablet past 6pm (too stimulating), he has a good and consistent bed-time routine. He doesn't have SN but has had some counselling for imaginary fears and over-active imagination in the past.

He just CANNOT get to sleep. After lights out he is back and forward to the loo 10 times, he then waits for me or DH to go to bed, and then the fear of being the last awake makes him come to our door and tell us (repeatedly) that he cannot sleep. This is ongoing and has been a problem on-and-off all of his life in one form or another.

We are at the end of our tethers (well, I am, DH is far more sympathetic). Wondered if anyone had similar experiences and had some solutions or strategies we could try...?

My brother was like this for years as a child and teen and he had eventually got a weighted blanket that really helped. It made him feel more secure and helped to calm his nervous system. Maybe something to look into? Hope it improves for all of you!

Sounds just like my 11yo DD, you have my sympathy

She’s been seeing a psychologist for the last 12 months, I can’t say it’s really helped much but she does enjoy going so we’re sticking with it for now.

The psychologist recommended some calming kids stories on YouTube but she found them really creepy however she did stumble across ASMR videos and they’ve really been helping. The channel she watches is called ASMR Darling, I really like it too!

She also recommended we speak to our GP about melatonin, however DD is totally against taking it so we’re leaving that on the back burner for now.

Good luck

If you have tried the usual go-to's and failed then discuss melatonin with a paed.

Not the crappy over the counter stuff you get (it does not work) but the stuff needing a prescription that may need to be compounded.

There are different formulations for not being able to get to sleep versus not being able to stay asleep.

One of mine has needed this for 10 years now, they obviously don't produce what they should naturally. We can get the slow release style easily as capsules from the pharmacy but this is for people who can fall asleep but not stay asleep, they need the formulation for not being able to fall asleep so we need to get that compounded.

how about black out blinds, white noise (fan), ear plugs?
my dd went to be with industrial ear defenders.

50 minutes winding down time in bed. DD's nearly 11 and has had this problem for years. If he still can't sleep, let him read until he dozes off, then send him to bed earlier the next night doing the same thing.

Does he actually need the amount of sleep that other children need. I always had trouble falling asleep and everyone complained about me not going to sleep when I was put to bed as a child. I finally figured out at university that in fact I only needed 4-5 hours sleep a night. My roommate and I calculated that she slept 40 hours a week more than I did!!! At 55 I am still the same. I almost never use an alarm. I go to bed around 8pm or 9pm, but don't go to sleep until 1 or 2am. I wake up without an alarm most days around 5:30. Occasionally I'll sleep in until 7 or 8.

I second the suggestion of audiobooks (I used to listen to a radio under the covers, or read a book with a flashlight). I also recommend a Kindle PaperWhite. The light that it emits is not the bad kind that keeps you up and it means that he doesn't need to have the light on and can fall asleep while reading (and it just puts itself to sleep).

Weighted blanket.

My friend with a similar aged DS with no SN had good success with a combination of melatonin (prescribed) and a weighted blanket.

Xpost redexpat

gut bacteria is linked to sleep. look into pre-biotics and pro-biotics, changed my life.

At this stage of suggest finding a well recommended psychologist (registered with hcpc) wise experience has been in Camhs and whom weeks privately too. Possibly some 3rd wave CBT techniques (age adapted) could be useful. But a good assessment would be the starting point

I am naturally anxious and can not sleep without music or an audiobook. You have had some great suggestions already, but I got one of those pillows that allow you to hear music etc but not disturb anyone else. Could be worth a try if listening to something helps. I have had terrible insomnia my whole life, so I really sympathise

If you really think he has some OCD, he is likely to be having ruminative thoughts. Intrusive thoughts which no amount of audiobooks or other distractions will help.
I'd really try revisiting the co-sleeping. He's struggling without you at night.

Hi,

This sounds really similar to me when I was a kid. I used to have a major fear of being the last one awake and it just to make my brain way too overactive to sleep.

My parents used to try for complete relaxation but it wouldn't work, having some distraction helped, mainly falling to sleep with the radio on or now if I'm struggling I'll listen to podcasts.

If he is not sleeping at night when does he sleep? Do not let him lie on in the mornings or doze at other times. Not sleeping does no harm it's worrying about that's harmful.

Well everything you are doing isn't working so changing things can hardly make things worse.

He has a sibling not only in the room but on top of him. Is it possible for him to have his own room? With a double bed as someone else suggested.

He "sleeps" with a light on? That's difficult. How about a sleep mask with a night light so the room isn't dark but his brain will think it is?

Let him go to bed later, much later.
Try Lauren Ostrowski Fenton for sleep meditation. He would need a device to listen to in bed. DS uses this with blue light filters, screen dim and headphones.

OP, my dd has always struggled with getting to sleep. So did I when I was a child. Even now, to some extent!

Two things have helped my dd. One is a guided mindfulness app on her phone. The other is audio books on her Alexa device. However, she finds that ordinary audio books keep her awake as she wants to listen to the story, so now she listens to the same story night after night. It's an old favourite that she can practically recite from memory, so she doesn't need to concentrate but it gives her something to focus on while she is trying to drop off.

Personally, I like to listen to white noise while I go to sleep - my top choice is "ocean waves". I find it so relaxing and so much better than lying there in a silent room.

AlexaShutUp. Ocean Waves is my go to if I'm ever very stressed.

DH suffers with insomnia and anxiety. He found the Sainsburys sleepy tea (purple box) with valerian in it knocks him out, although the Clipper one is good too. Taste is quite strong so you have to sweeten it and best taken an hour before bed.

Also what time do you notice he finally does fall asleep? You may have to work backwards by an hour from then and push his bedtime back by half an hour every few nights to get his sleep rhythm back in sync.

Yes we use wave noises for DD too.

Have you tried relaxation techniques from yoga, siluch as alternate nostril breathing? (No, it’s not me taking the piss/ it is a real thing )

It’s very simple to do and highly recommended by my yoga teacher to help with falling asleep. I’m sure google would have s video or instructions. I find it relaxing and it makes me feel peaceful. I’ve slept well after yoga sessions including it.

I’ve also used podcasts such as sleep with me: m.soundcloud.com/sleepwithmepodcast and the boring talks (iPlayer radio).

Sorry lots of typos, my phone is playing silly buggers so the screen is half hidden at the moment.

Thanks all so much for the suggestions - I hadn't realised that weighted blankets were so expensive!!! I'd love to try one for him so will investigate further.

I also think a well-known audio book is a good idea - we live on a main road so i thought the white noise would have been enough from that but perhaps not.

So sorry for my late reply - we snuck off for a few days camping to try and break the routine. Back to his old tricks at home tonight though

Again, much appreciated - it's nice to know we are not the only ones struggling.

White noise doesn't work for everyone. Personally I find white noise to be extremely agitating and can't sleep in a room with a fan on or even stay in a room for any period of time with a white noise machine going.

I used to be an insomniac when I was younger. At some point I just learned to get to sleep (around mid teens). I’m not sure what it was that changed but it was partly not going to bed too early. I always needed less sleep than my older sister and was put to bed before her when young, which didn’t work.

These days I still have occasional problems. Certain noises keep me awake (eg humming or whining of electrical equipment, or road noise) and if I am somewhere where I can hear noises like that (eg a hotel with air conditioning) I use ear plugs. And I go to bed late, when I’m really ready for it.