Is the official C of E stance that ghosts, demons etc exist?

[Oscha]

Vicars do exorcisms, right? So they must believe in ghosts, demons, possession, etc etc? That seems so...odd. Frankly. I don’t mean to offend. It’s just occurred to me and I can’t get my head round it! Do all Christians believe in ghosts then?

Christians believe that our souls are immortal.
Not all believe that our souls live on in our 4th dimensional world. Most accept that the souls journey after departing the body can be interrupted and linger and need help to move on.

Sorry, I don’t understand your second sentence: ‘Not all believe that our souls live on in our 4th dimensional world.’

I thought Christians believed souls went to heaven-do they believe that’s an actual physical place then, if souls can be tangible ghosts?

Well I'm cathloic. I believe in God and heaven so therefore believe in the Devil and hell. I just always have. Dont spend much time thinking about it I suppose but do freak myself out sometimes watching scary films with Demons etc.

There’s an official rite of exorcism, so I suppose technically yes the CofE believes in the principle of things you can exorcise, although whether all Anglicans believe it would be a whole different issue. All vicars wouldn’t do exorcisms, though. Each diocese has a deliverance ministry who’d be responsible.

Do all Christians believe in ghosts then?

No, not in the sense of disembodied spirits walking the earth. Some Christian theologies would totally rule that out anyway. That’s why Hamlet worries about his father’s ghost being some kind of demon - because if you believe that the dead go straight to heaven/hell, they can’t be wandering around in castle battlements.

My Grandad’s wife is a cofE vicar and she certainly wouldn’t perform an exorcism . Nor does she believe in demons. My Catholic Nan on the other hand...

Our 4 dimensional world is our physical world and time. Not all Christians believe that a soul can exist within our space/time as we do. In other words that souls (ghosts) may be there but we cannot sense or detect them.

Every Diocese will have someone you can consult on the subject, but they would spend time checking first for any health issues.

Most Christian faiths have to tread a fine line here.

You have new testament appearances of other worldly beings - such as Jesus rising from the dead, an angel appearing to Mary to announce her pregnancy with Jesus and when Jesus ascends into heaven, two men appear in white etc.

Christian faith also teaches about life after death, angels and devils etc, so there is considerable belief in other worldly things that are related to, or created by God.

Yet on the other hand summoning of the dead or use of the occult is usually disapproved of!

I'd say it is one of those grey areas that most churches would rather not discuss in too much detail!

If you walked into your average little parish church and asked Gladys and Dorothy whether they believed in ghosts though, wouldn’t they be very, very likely to say no...? 😆 It seems to be a glaring hole in theological logic!

It seems to be a glaring hole in theological logic!

Why? Ghosts aren’t the same as demons; even if you believe in one, doesn’t mean you’re bound to believe in the other. (And plenty will believe in neither of course.)

But aren’t exorcisms to get rid of both ghosts and demons?

Exorcisms are biblical - Christ performs them - so it's hard for any Christian denomination to completely deny them, though - like other miracles - they can say they don't take place in the present day.

Ghosts don't officially fit with Protestant theology at all, though lots of members of Protestant denominations still believe in them.

Like most areas of belief, official teachings and what individual followers - including clergy - believe aren't always aligned, and a lot of it is a bit of a fudge.

Christians believe in the unseen. How much unseen varies from person to person.
There is a theology of a spiritual realm alongside our realm, and a spiritual battle going on around us.
Some people live very much grounded in the here and now, and don't trouble themselves or get troubled by an unseen realm. Others are more open to a spiritual interpretation of what goes on around them.

Some Christian theologies would totally rule that out anyway. That’s why Hamlet worries about his father’s ghost being some kind of demon - because if you believe that the dead go straight to heaven/hell, they can’t be wandering around in castle battlements.

Yes, and the other thing that's interesting about Hamlet's ghost is that given the numbers of recusant Catholics in England under Protestant Elizabeth (including Shakespeare, according to some scholars) that it has to be a Catholic ghost, because it's been allowed back to Elsinore from Purgatory, which isn't a Protestant doctrine.

I believe the official Catholic position on exorcism these days (at least in Ireland) is that it is believed by the Church that demonic possession can happen, and there are a couple of priests with the training to deal with it, but that it is incredibly rare, and is mostly down to mental or physical illness . I saw an article in the Irish Catholic newspaper that said that the Comms Bureau in Maynooth said it hadn't received notice of a single case of 'genuine' exorcism in Ireland in many years.

Exorcisms get rid of demons. Some sorts of ghosts are sometimes described as demons, and indeed some theologians have reasoned that all ghosts must actually be demonic tricks (so a demon masquerading as Auntie Ethel or whatever), as the actual souls of the dead can't appear on earth.

You do get the 'trapped soul of a person who needs to be released' kind of exorcism in popular culture, but I think (but willing to be corrected on this) that doesn't fit with Christian theology at all, and is a different kind of occult, like a ouija board or whatever.

Yeah, exorcism is a specific rite about casting out evil spirits in all Christian denominations that have it (as far as I know). It’s not the same thing as the vicar saying a prayer in your kitchen to encourage the spirit of Mrs Wetherby to go into the light or whatever - that might be called a blessing.

There's a bit where King Saul calls one of the prophets (Elijah?) up from the dead to ask him what he should do. Elijah if I remember rightly is somewhat unimpressed. It's amusing in a strange way.

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Not sure about the C of E policy on exorcism but each RC diocese has a properly trained diocesan exorcist. It's kept very hush hush as to who it actually is. I persuaded our former bishop to tell me who it was, and was amazed at the priest he'd chosen. As he it tiny and frail. But a very very holy man. Hence why he was chosen.

There is loads in the Bible about demonic possession. Jesus even casts a bunch of demons out of a man, which then possess a bunch of pigs. If you believe in the literal Bible then you believe in demons.

Most Christians would not believe in ghosts, however, in the way they’re shown in movies.

Not sure about the C of E policy on exorcism but each RC diocese has a properly trained diocesan exorcist.

Not in Ireland, not any more, apparently. Two or three for the whole country, and they don't sound any too busy.

Baptism is a form of exorcism...one renounces the devil and all his works.
I knew an exorcist. A friend of the family and he has worked in America.
He said he thought he had witnessed only 1 genuine possession and that had been the conclusion after much investigation.
He said the power of the mind was indeed a fabulous thing and we underestimate it at our own peril.
He explained the moving statues in Ireland (can't recall the exact place but someone else is bound to remember) as the following'
The power of prayer and the enormity of energy that can be produced by a group of people focused on one object.
He was a very thoughtful, spiritual and objective man in terms of Catholicism and faith. We had many interesting talks but the oe event i do recall will creep me out forever.
We had all gone out for a meal and were walking home along a street lit by street lights. But as Fr. X walked past, each light flicked out, one by one all the way up the road. When he reached the end of the street, they all popped back to life again.
My brother and I looked at each other, we didn't say anything because I think we both wanted to simply forget what we'd seen.

He explained the moving statues in Ireland (can't recall the exact place but someone else is bound to remember) as the following' The power of prayer and the enormity of energy that can be produced by a group of people focused on one object.

Honestly, lola, the moving statues phenomenon (Ballinspittle and elsewhere) was more to do with group suggestibility, the visual effect caused by focusing on something brightly lit against a dark background, and being a symptom of the death of an older, more traditional Ireland and the birth of a more secular one -- it was also the year when the law changed so you could buy condoms without a prescription, to mention only one thing.

My mother and aunt took us to Ballinspittle, and my sister got a stomach upset from a dodgy burger van.

I i completely agree but he was the 1st person around me that was willing to suggest that it might be something other than a manifestation of divine influence. Up until then not a single person around me voiced any other belief. Which was refreshing and a relief