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Not sure how much longer I can keep working like this (NHS GP)

164 replies

TiredofbeingaGP · 17/08/2018 19:20

I've name changed for this, as don't want it tied to my usual username.
Sorry this is long, I guess I just want to vent and consider my options, and I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's been in this situation and come out of the other side of it...

I'm a GP in a severely understaffed practice. It's a medium sized practice that's run by a non-profit group that has taken over the contracts for several practices in the area, as the partners have handed back the contracts to NHS England for various reasons (retirement, emigration, burnout).

I've been there for 2 years (qualified GP for 11 years), and there's never been much stability of clinical staff, but the management are supportive, if overstretched themselves. There's lots of good innovative thinking, but this translates into an exhausting rate of change. At the moment this is causing low morale in the admin team and some of the clinical team.

I'm an introvert and a HSP. I have a lovely, energetic and exhausting 8yr old DS, and a lovely but busy DH, who is a full time consultant in a hospital specialty, so works a lot of weekends and evenings.

I have always struggled with the emotional burden of general practice - I'm the sort of GP who listens, and is supportive and understanding, and therefore runs late all the time (my regular patients bring a book). I wouldn't/ couldn't practice any other way, and I do make a difference to my patients' lives, but it means I shoulder more than my fair share of complex chronic illness and mental health issues (especially when we need a lot of locum GPs to keep afloat).

I am increasingly struggling with stress and anxiety. This has been worse since Easter, when another GP left, and I've been on-call constantly since then. I only work clinically two days a week, but those are inevitably 12 hour days, busy and full of clinical risk, trying to sort out the same day urgent work and fit in my regular patients as well. I then do the vast majority of parenting and the mental load of the household, simply because DH isn't around much. When he is here, he mucks in and does his share of parenting and housework.

I gave up a stressful academic post last year, having had to take time off sick with stress the year before. Initially this helped a lot, but since then we've lost two more GPs.

I am doing all the self care stuff - talking to colleagues, exercising regularly, trying to eat well, meditating, CBT-ing myself constantly, taking time on my own when I can to recharge - but increasingly it isn't enough to keep my head above water. I'm not sleeping well, feeling tearful a lot of the time, binge eating carbs (which is a stress response), having difficulty letting go of work when I'm at home, being grumpy and impatient with DS and then feeling really guilty.

I'm aware the practice isn't really safe - I keep picking up on things the locums have missed, some because they aren't very good, and some because they just don't know the patients. Continuity of care saves lives. I'm also aware that my decision making after 11 hours of clinical work isn't the best, and I worry about what I'm missing.

The thing is, I don't think the grass is necessarily greener elsewhere (IE working for a different practice), and I don't know what else to do to keep going. I've tried academia/ medical teaching (massive workload, bullying management), tried working part-time, tried walk-in centre work (missed the continuity and the contact with other GPs).

I've talked to the managers and they know I'm struggling, but there's little else they can do unless we can recruit more GPs, and they're very thin on the ground! I don't really want to take medication for symptoms that are actually a fairly proportionate response to an impossible situation. I also had a severe adverse reaction to sertraline, so I'm wary of taking anything similar. I love being a GP, but not at the indefinite expense of my mental health and my family.

Any ideas how I can get out of this mess?!!

OP posts:
AnElderlyLadyOfMediumHeight · 18/08/2018 07:50

What leapt out at me is your statement in an earlier post that your time at home when your ds is at school seems to get 'eaten up with chores'. I mean this a lot more kindly than it will probably come across - but with one 8yo NT child in the house I am not entirely sure where all the chores are coming from.

You are clearly an extremely conscientious person and no doubt apply the same standards to things at home that you do at work (iyswim). What's going on there? And also, what's going on with dh? I am guessing that, as a busy, hard-working and successful medic himself, he expects a lot of himself and others. Does he expect a lot of you, because, after all, you're at home 3 days a week?

I'm not sure resigning is the way forward for you. It sounds as if you have a not too bad set-up at least in terms of the people you are working with (obviously the stretchedness and pressures are terrible, but I fear that would be the same everywhere, tbh, apart from private practice, which I understand entirely you don't want to do). And you sound as if you need the balance that comes from being out of the house a couple of days a week doing what you do well - despite the awfulness of the pressures. (My dh is a professional in a not entirely dissimilar field, so I know a bit about the sense of vocation). I actually wonder a bit what might happen if you did quit and become a full-time SAHM - would you drive yourself to exhaustion wanting to do everything just perfectly, combined with the frustration of the walls closing in on you?

I would absolutely have a look around for a practice that might suit you better, as a medic PP has suggested.

smerlin · 18/08/2018 07:51

Not sure where you are based- I am in London so plenty of options- but I have outsourced the following here at a reasonable rate at different times of my life
*cleaner- weekly jobs and bigger jobs like oven cleaning

  • au pair (never used one but know plenty who do)
  • ironing service
  • house PA (someone you pay an hourly rate to do some of that organisation stuff for you)
  • gardener
  • any and all DIY tasks Seriously, when my work is becoming overwhelming, I will outsource anything I can so that time at home can be used for resting/being with DD. We, I would imagine, are probably on a similar salary to you and your partner, if not lower tbh.

I always get DH to agree to trialling these things and then when he sees the results, he generally goes along with it.

(Some of these are ad hoc services, not regular)

Theworldisfullofgs · 18/08/2018 08:03

notpostedhere 's advice is very good.
Look at your options and don't let guilt keep you there. You need to put yourself first to be good for your patients in the ling run.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Pigletthedog · 18/08/2018 08:08

It seems to me that it's people who care for others who struggle most in admitting to needing help and support themselves. It's nonsensical because we're all about encouraging people to seek help, we just can't listen to our own advice.

Im a child protection police officer and it's taken me more years than it should to admit that I've reached saturation point. I'm good at my job and I believe I've made a difference to countless people but I'm about to hand my notice in and go and do something else. The pressures in public sector work are immense, when you're dealing with high risk and emotionally draining work, the pressure is almost unbearable.

Perhaps if I'd not tried to 'just get through this rough patch' or 'put up and shut up' my organisation might have got more years out of me?

Take care of yourself first OP, you can't offer anyone anything if you're running on emptyThanks

user1471462115 · 18/08/2018 08:12

HCP who was in a similar boat. Meant to work three days, normally did five.
I had a cleaner who also irons.
Still got burn out.
I stayed a year longer than i should have as I felt the overwhelming responsibility you describe.

I eventually left and did bank hours for a year. It was amazing to see other places were well staffed and so much less stressful.

I have just started a new permanent post on a lower grade, and for four days as I can mentally cope so much better.
Still have the cleaner and also pay decorators to paint my front room.

The NHS is broken and dying, but some bits are in better shape than others, there is no shame in moving to a better place to work.

Summersup · 18/08/2018 08:36

Agree with so many posts here. You are doing an emotionally and mentally taxing job, with high expectations of yourself. Your current working conditions are completely unacceptable, but instead of blaming them, you are blaming yourself and beating yourself up for being stressed/having mental health issues, when in fact, this is so extremely common in HC right now, there's a recruitment crisis and GPs are fleeing- into other roles, part time work, going abroad, anywhere to get away from the madness.

I agree with the poster who said it could be different elsewhere- I live out of London and can see a dr the same day through telephone triage, they are so nice, and booked appointments are only a few days away if that. The drs are relaxed and friendly and there's lots of them. They do get stressed, I'm sure, but having working colleagues who pick up the slack and are 'in it together' would make a huge difference.

You need a supportive work environment to do an emotionally demanding job- you dont' have one, you are struggling. Don't sacrifice yourself for the gov't mess, rework your life so you can live it.

tangledyarn · 18/08/2018 08:38

I really feel for you..You sound like an amazing GP and as hcp and a chronic illness sufferer I really appreciate the GPs like you. It sounds like you are stuck in threat mode so despite theoretically having enough time away from work you are constantly in fight or flight which is often the case with chronic stress. Id definitely look into some short term therapy to help you get out of that mode but longer term it sounds like the level of responsibility and workload is just unmanageable so unless your practice can make some significant changes quickly you will just be back in the same boat. Don't be afraid to take time off sick if you need to it might give you a bit of headspace to think clearly and make a plan. This isn't about you being weak this is about you being placed in a situation which is unmanageable which on top of the bullying I think has understandably led to you feeling totally different overwhelmed.

movinggoalposts · 18/08/2018 09:42

You sound amazing and I’d love you to be my GP but things have to change before you get it wrong for a patient.

I’ve made myself ill in the past through stress. Outsourcing the cleaning actually made a lot of difference to my ability to cope. Our cleaner comes on the days that I work but only for 90 mins. She does all the basics and lets the dog out/gives fuss. I knew it would lighten the physical load on me but I was surprised by how much it lightened the mental load too - it felt like the house was a shared responsibility rather than just mine. In all honesty, at first I found it uncomfortable (I don’t come from a family that had a cleaner) but now I wouldn’t do without her. Please consider giving it a try before jacking your job in.

TiredofbeingaGP · 18/08/2018 09:49

It's very helpful to hear other GPs/ doctors saying that the workload is unmanageable. For a long time my internal voice has been echoing the posters who are saying 'You only work 2 days a week, and have one healthy child, fgs woman, why on earth aren't you coping?'. There is an emotional cost to doing this work, and after 11 years as a GP and 16 years in medicine, I wonder whether I am, to echo a previous poster, just reaching saturation point. I was working 38 hours a week over 4 days until I left the academic job last year, and I intended initially to pick up some more clinical hours once I'd had a bit of a break and recuperated from the burnout from the academic role (I was fine clinically at that point), but that point has never seemed to arrive, as we've has so much change at the practice.

That said, it has helped to reflect on why I am struggling to manage a perfectly normal level of life admin and housework (and documenting my CPD, which is sorely neglected currently). I guess the thing that has changed in the past 3 months is that I'm struggling to relax at home, and getting hung up on all the stuff I should be doing and aren't, and I seem to lack motivation when not at work, so I don't do stuff and then get stressed because it's not done. None of this is insurmountable, but it feels like a huge weight because of my stress level/ emotional exhaustion, so it's a vicious circle.

The 'grass isn't greener' thing - I've worked in more than a dozen different practices over the past 12 years, including 3 years as a locum when DS was little and I was trying to build an academic career, and also walk in centre work and out of hours. All I wanted was a nice little practice with a supportive team, where I could settle in and be someone's doctor for the next 20 years. And it is a lovely practice, the right size for me, lovely caring staff, management who are doing their damnedest to make things work, a good mix of patients.

We've lost three GPs in the past two years, one resigned due to health problems and is no longer practising, and two have moved to be near their partners (lots of younger GPs have partners who are junior hospital Drs, so often have to move when their OH gets a post elsewhere). The other really conscientious GP in the practice has been on a period of extended leave, although she is due back soon, so that will help. I've been hanging on whilst we try to recruit more GPs.

It's interesting to hear that GPRs coming out of training are actively avoiding APMS practices. It's well paid as salaried GP roles go and there's lots of room for portfolio work, so that might explain why we're getting so little interest.

We have hired a paramedic, but he's currently seconded to one of the other practices that has literally no regular GPs. When he's around doing visits it's great, but this is a new area of practice for him, so I provide quite a bit of supervision and support. We've also hired a clinical pharmacist, but she's just starting her prescribing training, so again, it'll be good in the longer term, but right now it's another person needing supervision and training. We have a new document management system, but it needs a lot of oversight currently and we have had teething problems, again due to staff training needs.

I've been involved in training Physician Associates in my previous academic role, and again at the moment it would be another person who needed supervision, who couldn't actually do much with the complex physical/ mental health problems. We already have an excellent Nurse Practitioner who sees everything a PA could. Part of the problem is that almost all the simple/ solvable stuff is being seen by other people (even if I'm still triaging a fair bit of it), and it's draining seeing nothing but really complex cases. Sometimes it's nice to see something easy and fixable!

The additional clinician who would make most difference I think would be a mental health worker, preferably a CPN. I do refer on to talking therapies and the mental health team, but the waiting list for counselling is 3 months, and for the mental health team it's 12 months, so I have a cohort of patients with complex and deep-seated mental health problems who have been turned down by the CBT people as 'too complex', who are now trying to hold their lives together during the 12 months wait for assessment by the community mental health team (who are even more short staffed and stretched than we are!). An appointment with me every 2-4 weeks for some support, and whilst we find the right medication for them and titrate it, makes a big difference. I can do this happily when I have routine appointments available, but fitting them into on call days is a struggle. Bear in mind also that I never did a psychiatry job as a junior doctor, so apart from the odd training day, I'm mostly just trying to care for them as one human being to another. I'm certainly not a mental health specialist!

We've implemented a new appointment system, as previously the GP on call had to see a full clinic of pre-booked patients in addition, but this means we have fewer routine appointments, and the reception staff taking the calls have to ask what the problem is, which they feel uncomfortable doing, and the patients don't like. Again, patients who refuse to disclose the problem to the receptionist get put on the on call screen. There's a lot more training needed to empower the staff and give them the confidence to decide what stuff can be kept away from the on call GP.

So there's definitely awareness of the workload at management level, and lots of change to try to improve things, but it's that thing of trying to hold on waiting for things to get better, with no end in sight, and trying to manage a high rate of change which is unsettling for the staff, and all the while we are the practice who is getting least management attention, as at least we do have some GPs (two of the practices within our group have no permanent GPs at all currently).

It could be such a lovely practice to work in, with a few more GP sessions.

OP posts:
CormoranStrike · 18/08/2018 10:00

Can you give joe your practice and become a locum yourself?

Then you can pick and choose shifts, and not have the overwhelming feeling of responsibility of ‘there’s nobody else to do it’.

Because, and I say this with kindness, if you were to quit or go off sick they would find someone else somehow, they would have to.

That might mean a poorer system for the public but the weight of the creaking and groaning NHS does not rest on your shoulders.

nolongersurprised · 18/08/2018 10:00

busybusybusy’s point upthread is spot on, I think. To sustain a career over the next 30 years or so you need a different working environment.

Before you blame yourself for an untenable working situation what 2 things would make things more workable? Will you get them at this practice?

I’m going to go against the grain and say I don’t think this is a primary mental health issue, more than you’re doing too much and making too many decisions ashen you’re working. The anxiety is probably warranted - if you miss something important then a patient could potentially become very unwell overnight.

TiredofbeingaGP · 18/08/2018 10:21

I do have good friends, but they're scattered around the country. I have made an effort to get in touch and catch up with people recently, but I'm really very introverted and need a lot of down time to recharge, so I have to manage my social commitments carefully or it makes things worse rather than better.

I have a lovely, supportive, GP study group, and need to schedule another meet up - we generally manage every 6 weeks, but it's a longer gap over the summer hols, as we all have young children.

I have two weeks of annual leave starting now, so I'm going to try to finish off work stuff today and then have a proper mind break for a week or so. DH and DS are away this weekend, then I'm joining them on Monday for a few days, so that will provide some distance from work/ home, and a chance to have a good talk with DH. I've been contemplating posting for a few weeks, and I think I posted this now so that I could sort through my feelings before taking time off, as I didn't want to carry it all into my holiday.

I have booked a week's leave in October, and the way Christmas falls this year, I will get a week and half off then, so I'm going to plan some nice things to do/ look forward to.

I am going to email the practice manager to reinforce an earlier chat about potentially hiring a mental health worker and a physio, and see if we can progress that.

I will ask around locally for recommendations for a cleaner, and also talk to DH about getting a decorator in (he likes to do his own painting and decorating, but never has time, so everything is half finished, and it irritates me. I don't enjoy decorating as I get neck and back pain due to mild scoliosis).

I will look into the local mentoring scheme, GP Health, and 'the couch' on doctors.net. You're right that I tend to internalise things, and I'm doing everything I can to self-care currently, so it's time to get some outside support for my mental health again. I also need to read Brene Brown again and really make an effort to be kinder to myself in terms of the negative self-talk.

I think I also need to set an end point for this. I will do everything within my power to improve the situation over the next few months, and if I'm not feeling any better by the end of this year, then maybe it's time to look for a different GP job.

This thread is really helping me to sort out my feelings and work through things. Thank you for your contributions!

OP posts:
Butteredparsn1ps · 18/08/2018 10:26

There seem to be a number of posters here giving a history of I thought it was me, when it turned out to be the job all along

Removing the aggravating factor seems to have been the key step to recovery.

As an aside, Hospice UK published a report on resilience a couple of years ago which considered the well-being of their workforce. Whilst acknowledging the emotional burden upon staff they found that Hospices tended to support workers better than other areas of healthcare and had cultures that allowed people to express their emotions. Thus, despite sometimes distressing circumstances, Hospices were no worse, and were sometimes better, places to work, compared with other specialities. Doing a good job, doesn’t have to mean working in an area that won’t support you.

Rosemary46 · 18/08/2018 10:38

I cannot comment on the NHS stuf as I know nothing about it.

However I am also an introvert and a HSP and I wonder if you are setting too high standards for yourself at home as well as at work.

You will need a lot of alone time to process all that is happening at work and also to deal with the social admin , as these will be exhausting for you.

I nearly spat out my tea when I read about your right on dude bro husband who doesn’t like to outsource things that YOU can do yourself.

Who is happy to outsource most of his parenting to you by simply “ not being there “. Yet baulks at a cleaner.

You say “ I neee to get a cleaner “. Well you are right that YOU will need to hire her / him but they are not doing YOUR cleaning are they? You need to challenge the view you / your husband / some posters on this thread have that the housework, childcare and wife work are all YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and your husband “ helps out “.

This isn’t your fault. You are not lazy or defective. It’s impossible to have two demanding well paid careers AND children without significant help at home.

You have a good income, hire a housekeeper now. Someone who will do basic meals, wash and iron, cook and perhaps shop as well.

You will still have all the wifework . The only person you can outsource this to is your husband and he’s clearly not interested in taking his share of that.

You didn’t mention it but if you are doing emotional labour for your husband ( contacting his family , doing birthdays and Christmas gifts for them, cards, phone calls, organising his social life ) then you need to stop.

You have too much responsibility at home and at work. It doesn’t matter if people who are less conscientious or have a different personality can do this for 80 hours a week without any problem. You can’t and you don’t need to any more.

Ignore the posters who say you have have too little to do. I’m sure they mean well but they don’t understand who you are or what you are doing.

You have choices. I know it doesn’t feel like it but you do.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 18/08/2018 10:45

Your mental health is priority. Get a cleaner and gardener. Eat out a couple of times a week. Put DH 100% in charge of the dog care (excluding walks when you’re about). Excersise and do yoga.

Labradoodliedoodoo · 18/08/2018 10:48

I would just tell DH you’ve hired a cleaner and gardener. He can always choose to do it all A’s you’re not

MorningsEleven · 18/08/2018 11:08

I'd suggest becoming a locum but I don't think it would work for you.

You care, which is brilliant and you sound a lot like our GP but you have to care for yourself first.

Get whatever help at home you can afford.
Get someone else to CBT you. Offload that.

Talk to your admin staff. And your nurse practitioners. They too know your patients and they might just have that bit of key information that cuts 3 minutes off a consultation.

TiredofbeingaGP · 18/08/2018 11:20

Thank you Rosemary, I'm crying a little now, but in a good way!

DH doesn't expect me to do everything, he often tells me that this is all a joint responsibility and I shouldn't shoulder all of the burden, but he doesn't allow for how long things take, and he has good intentions of hoovering/ decorating/ cleaning etc, but then never has time. He's an 'activist' type who starts things in a great burst of energy and enthusiasm and then never finishes them. So he cleaned the house last week and then has taken DS and DMiL away for the weekend to give me a break, but he also emptied the study to start decorating it (after I mentioned the state of the study as something that was stressing me), so now we have piles of papers and books in the spare room and if past form is anything to go by, they'll still be there at Christmas.

The kitchen and hallway have been half decorated for the past 4 years. He really doesn't notice and doesn't mind living like this, but for an HSP this is a stressful way to live. I told him 5 months ago that I wanted to get a decorator in, and we agreed that we would if he hadn't done the decorating in 6 months time. I am planning to stick to this agreement.

I've been trying to sort through the clutter a bit at a time, but his answer is to push everything in to cupboards so that externally things look ok. I'm aware of the mess behind the closed doors, whereas if he can't see it he can happily forget it exists. He says that life is busy and I need to prioritise, and cleaning out the cupboards isn't a priority. He's probably right, but as with everything else, someone has to do it at some point. I seem to be the backstop both at home and at work. That's interesting, as I hadn't really thought of it like that before, but I think that might be the root of it.

I don't manage his social life/ hobbies/ interests, although I do remind re cards/ sort presents for nieces and nephews. He doesn't really notice birthdays, but then he doesn't really celebrate his own, or expect anyone else to. He has forgotten my birthday and our wedding anniversary before, but he's got better with the advent of electronic calendars.

He shows love through acts of service rather than gifts, and is very affectionate and caring, but he is much higher energy than me, so I think you're right about the having high expectations (although my own expectations of myself are more of a problem).

I provide a lot of emotional support for his work and family issues, but he does listen and support me as well, so it's not one sided. My family relationships are also much more straightforward.

I would like to have more head space for my creative stuff - sketching and writing - but I can't do that in bits and pieces around everything else, I need periods of time when I can stare into space and get myself into the right state of mind. I'd thought that once I gave up the academic work it'd be easy to fit in some creative time, but I can't seem to get into a good frame of mind for it.

We both come from families with a very strong gender divide in terms of housework/ childcare/ wifework, so we've both come a long way with this, but the default, unless we're both actively thinking about it, is that I tend to just get on and do things.

OP posts:
AnnaMagnani · 18/08/2018 11:36

I was coming back on this thread this morning to post something similar to Rosemary46 but less well written.

I am obvs in the NHS but I am wondering if you are in the familiar pattern that he is fulltime consultant being v busy and important, you opted to be part-time GP, possibly for family reasons and along the way have picked up all the family organiser, house organiser, mental load and everything else that is generally called wifework.

I would guarantee that not one of his days as a consultant are as busy or mentally draining as your two in GP - I looked at your description and honestly felt weak.

I think you are spot on with your analysis that you are the backstop at work (which sounds fucking horrendous) but you also are at home - all very well for him to say you are both capable of doing the cleaning, doing the DIY, hide things in cupboards but eventually someone probably you feels unappreciated that it's their birthday that is always forgotten, or the boiler breaks because nobody remembered to get it serviced and home is not a refuge from work - it's just more work.

I'd recommend you read Wifework - or even better get him a copy for his birthday.

annandale · 18/08/2018 11:48

Wow. I think you are both underestimating the stress of a process like 'if it's not done in 6 months we will get decorators in' in your OWN HOME.

Thoughts in your head for six months:

  1. At home: My surroundings look bad. I wish they didn't. I feel a bit low because they look bad.
2.i wonder what colour we should choose. Id love to have time to think about it. Hope we dont end up picking in a rush and getting it wrong so i have to look at it.
  1. I hope it isnt a struggle to agree the colour and paint type. Id like to talk about it but dh might think im giving him a hard time about not getting it done. Better not say anything.
  2. I wonder if dh might do something about the decorating this weekend. What can i do to make it easier for him to do it?
  3. Can't ask him though, we have a deal that it's in his court for six months.
  4. There's the details of a decorator. Better take them so that i have a stock of names to ask for quotes in six months' time.
  5. Oh God i wish the house looked bloody finished and calm, then maybe i would have some space to think. I feel angry with dh for not doing it. But i cant feel angry, we have a deal about six months.
  6. [Maybe] Oh he bloody wants sex. He's got tons of time to get his rocks off, but cant pick up a bloody paintbrush. He can have a bloody quickie and like it.

EIGHT strands of thought about ONE household job. And it's not actually done! No wonder you havent got back to painting. Tell him to bloody well get over himself and get decorator quotes today - it's a ten minute job to start it - google, mass text, set a reminder to chase.

What hospital medicine does he do? It's ironic that presumably he can see the value of a team at work - he doesnt clean his own surgery and do his own chest physio for all his patients, does he?

Essentially its not class, its misogyny, or a streak of both - home jobs arent difficult or stressful so obviously he could do them all easily. Except somehow he doesnt. I will give him the fact that an unfinished house may not bother him the way it bothers you. But these deals that put you in limbo for six months have to stop. Its bad enough getting people in, its not exactly stress free doing that.

AlmaGeddon · 18/08/2018 11:58

I had depression and it was due to feeling trapped - not physically but in what I felt were duties (aged relatives) , a v long hours working DH (shouldn’t I be grateful, he was very well paid), and his expectation I should be at his side. To everyone I had the life of Reilly but somehow couldn’t settle to self fulfilling hobbies, felt lonely As dh never there and if he was he was thinking and talking about work, and feeling, looking back that my life was not my own. Being the emotional support in my and extended family, caring for oldies, supporting DH. And I was meserable. Problem was I didn’t actually know what I wanted to make me happy, I was bogged down in duties. You sound a bit the same OP. And my DH lacked empathy, not a bad man but everything was a straight decision with him, no misgivings about upsetting others etc, made life simple for him imv. I would saycounselling, counselling, counselling is the way to go for you. Also I was influenced by my childhood where I was the eldest and fixer of problems . Sorry for long ramble. You sound like I felt!

Rosemary46 · 18/08/2018 12:10

Annandale - I don’t know about the OP but EVERY SINGLE WORD you wrote is exactly how I would feel in that situation.

Plus I would make a Pinterest board of the blue colours I’d like for the Hall, then get a few samples. Look at them in different lights and choose my favourite. Research to find out which brand makes that colour in the most washable finish .

But of course not discuss with Dh because you know that would be nagging . Then I’d come home one day to discover that he’d asked some randomer ( not a decorator , just the mate of someone he knew who does a bit of DIY) to paint the hall ( badly ) in cheap white emulsion.

And of course he wouldn’t use dust sheets properly so I’d spend hours cleaning paint spray off the woodwork, sockets and switches , light fittings.

But I’d have to be GRATEFUL to Dh for spending 15 mins organising it and paying for it with OUR MONEY . Even though I’d spent far more time but that wouldn’t count of course . Because these things are no big deal when women do them but a HUGE thing when men do them and they needs LOTS of cookies as a reward.

So I’d feel sad and guilty and I’d hate the ugly white hall every time I walked through it. Then i would post about it on Mn and people would flame me and tell me it’s my fault that he doesn’t nothing because I’m too critical.

And I’m a lazy slattern for not mixing my own paint and applying it with a feather because I work PART TIME and my husband is a Very Important Man with a Proper Job.

MorningsEleven · 18/08/2018 12:25

@AnnaMagnani

You're spot on. The OP has a huge job and all the bloody wife work on top. I'm sure her husband has many stresses but I can't think of many professions more challenging than being a GP.

Hoozz · 18/08/2018 13:27

We have nowhere near the kind of income you get from being doctors but DH always felt very strongly that he went to work in a job he was good at and paid well for so he could in turn pay others to do DIY.
The idea that your DH would do his own decorating (or not as it happens) when you could easily afford to pay a professional is staggering. Would he do his own plumbing? Electrical repairs? These are skilled jobs that most people don't attempt to do themselves.
As someone else said you don't need a cleaner you need a proper housekeeper, someone who will come on every day for a good few months until you are on an even keel. Then scale it back to just cleaning / gardening / ironing. And forget DIY permanently.

TiredofbeingaGP · 18/08/2018 13:44

Yes AnnaMagnani that's us! DH is a few years older than me, so he was already in speciality training by the time I was looking for SHO posts. If I'd have followed my heart and done palliative medicine, which was a shortage specialty in those days, I'd have had to be a med reg for several years, and I didn't see how that would work with family life, with DH in a speciality with a lot of on call (anaesthesia/ITU, although he no longer does ITU as involved in other stuff at high level).

I came late to feminism. My mum always told me that if I wanted to have it all, I'd have to do it all, and that's just the way it is for women. She also said that men never really grow up, so can't be expected to pull their weight at home, and also that I needed to maintain financial independence, as she hadn't and felt she lost power over her life because of this.

I was never someone who wanted to be a doctor from early on. I used to dream of being a novelist, and have notebooks full of ideas, short stories, plans, characters. My parents pushed me to do sciences at A-level because I could (good all rounder) and there were jobs to be had with science qualifications, and then I had no clue what to do other than medicine, which at least is an art as well as a science, and I would get to help people. I had little to no careers advice. Medicine has done me surprisingly well considering!

My parents love me, and mean well, but had no experience of higher education themselves, and no idea of the range of jobs available. It seemed to be very much a choice between medicine, law, accountancy, engineering. They were very keen that I do a vocational degree and worried about me ending up an unemployed arts graduate. Financial stability was very much stressed as the most important thing.

DS is a joy, a very happy and secure child who is doing well academically and socially. And DSH is very grateful for all the hard work I've put in, and points out that neither he or DS would be who they are today without me.

Annandale yes! Although not the sex stuff - we're thankfully very compatible that way. Also, we picked colours etc years ago, it's literally half finished, the paint is there (going off in the shed), it just needs a few days of working time that I'd happily pay someone else to do.

[Edited by MNHQ to remove identifying information]

OP posts: