Are all schools encouraging four A levels to start with?

[EachandEveryone]

I thought they had stopped that.

My niece has just got four C's at the half way mark and is gutted. I cant help feeling that if she'd had three to concentrate on she wouldve done better.

Her sister has been told to choose four to start in September. My friends children in London have only ever done three from the beginning. The school is insisting niece picks four. Is that because of the new system.

I think starting with 4 is fairly standard. Not universal, but very common.

Then taking an AS in one, and continuing with the other 3

Ours has three as the standard.

Four allowed only for those taking double maths or those taking a 'home' language (including those not even taught by the school)

Four was the norm at my school for AS and then most people dropped a subject for their final year.

Most subjects don't offer AS any more, so the theory of 'start with 4' is old fashioned.
Most degrees want 3 good A levels so spreading your attention is a waste unless you are torn between subjects and really want to give both a try.

DS2 is about to start sixth form and we've looked at several in our area.

They are only allowing pupils to start four A-levels if they get GCSE results over a certain level (usually an average grade of 7 or 7.5).

Usually taking AS at the end of Y12 is not offered as a option.

Of the pupils I know who want to study four A-levels (including DS2), Further Maths is often the fourth.

Our local sixth form college strongly advises ONLY three, particularly in essay heavy subjects. And as PP said, in order to take four, you need an average grade of at least 7.

Most Universities are not looking for four unless there is a very good reason (eg double/higher maths).

3 unless taking further maths is the norm round here

DD has just finished year 13 and started with 4 subjects. Her school were still doing AS levels last year and insisted that the more able students started off with 4 subjects. DD really struggled with the workload and the lack of free periods, but managed to get 2As and 2Bs at AS level. She dropped one of the A grade subjects then went on to get 3As at A level. With hindsight dropping the A grade AS level was the right thing to do as she now has all As on her UCAS applications.

With the new style tougher A levels fewer students are starting off with 4 subjects. On the other hand DD dropped the subject she hated, which she wouldn't have been able to do if she had only started off with three subjects in the first place.

Grammar for mine is only three unless further maths or special circumstances.

DS1 started 6th Form in 2015 and did 4 then dropped one for the next year. I didn't really see the point.
DS2 is starting this year with 3 (different school).

No. My dd's 6th form college would only let them do 4 if they had certain results-I think they had to score at least 6 in both maths and an English, and A/A* in the subjects they wanted to do.

3 is much more usual since the reforms to A-levels took effect. DDs former school only allow 3 now unless taking FM. However they do allow students to start with 4 (timetable permitting) to see which subjects they like but they are exoected to drop to 3 by half term. Before the reforms, the same school insisted on 4, or 5 if you were taking FM, right through year 12.

Just wondering if there is a valid argument for taking 4 and then dropping the weakest subject following an assessment at the end of the first year?

Is the intention to give students chances of top scores in their 'best three'?

Watching with interest to see how those who have recently been through this have experienced it.

Our local sixth form college offer four and then encourage most to drop to three after the first term (I think... Possibly a bit later as I know they do sit 'mock' exams for internal purposes in January).

The thinking behind it is that some a level subjects may be totally new and not studied at gcse (law, psychology, sociology etc) so some pupils may find that the subject they picked isn't what they expected which isn't great if you've only got three subjects to start with.... Or they may find that the jump to a level is much higher in certain subjects.

Those that are performing well are allowed to continue with all four with the tutors agreement.

That sounds very sensible errorofjudgement

thank you Lonicera. I thought so too

From distant memory the college I went to insisted on four A Levels or an additional GCSE in the first year as pupils had to attend a minimum of 16 hours per week (4 per subject). In second year only 12 hours of lessons was obligatory each week, so a subject could be dropped.

A lot of schools are now only allowing students to take three from the start because of funding issues and because of the decoupling of AS (many aren’t entering for AS as it’s expensive). It’s a cheap option rather than a good option.

It’s bloody awful. We have kids who are wholly unsuited to a subject that they are taking, which they realise partway through Y12, or when they flunk internal exams at the end of Y12 and there is nothing they can do about it. If they’ve got 2 good results and 1 stinker, they still have to limp on with the stinker for another year while teachers run around like blue-arsed flies trying to drag them over the pass line. The way our timetable is set up generally prohibits any more creative solutions.

It also means students have an incredibly narrow curriculum from the age of 16, in contrast with the broad curriculum offered by other countries.

The Independent school DS will go to only allows 3. They can take an AS on top as an extra and do NPQ (is that what it's called?? the project thing).

My son is starting 6th form in September and is hoping to do 4 A levels but can only do so if he gets an average grade of 7.5 spread over 8 GCSEs, including 7s in the subjects that he wishes to take.

Seems completely illogical to take 4 when University offers are for 3 . My DC 1 and 2 went to Trinity and Durham respectively and their offers were for 3 As at Alevel plus an interview for Cambridge. No Extended project , no extra Alevels. Surely if there is a finite amount of time then logic dictates you concentrate on 3 rather than spread yourself more thinly. It just seems daft unless their 3rd is very week and they need to 'try them out' before buckling down on the chosen one for the final year.
All smacks of a bit of competition between parents who can brag 'my dcs are doing 4' !

Our school goes for 4, or 3 plus EPQ, but only for students averaging above certain grades - DD1 had to get an A average (GCSEs last year so still mostly in 'old' money) which she duly did. She's enjoying doing the EPQ, but with 2 essay heavy subjects it isn't easy. They don't do AS at all, just mocks.

Starting with only 3 subjects seems risky unless the student (a) is pretty sure what they want to do after (b) are not taking any new subjects that they may not take to and (c) can cope with at A level.

It also seems wrong to limit very able students who are capable of ... here's a novel concept .... learning more. Education sometimes seems far too grade-focussed, doesn't it?

But a word of warning... if your DC aspires to Cambridge, some courses will offer eg 2A stars and an A to those doing 3 subjects but want 2Astars and 2As from those doing more!

Our local 6th form now only offers 3, except for 4th being Further Maths. Dd1 was able to choose 4 and most dropped a subject at end of year 12 (or before). It worries me that this is no longer an option as she is now doing very well at Uni doing what was her 4th choice subject. If 4 wasn't an option she would have been stuck with a subject (which was initially her favourite) that she just didn't on with.

Our school starts 4 with a view to dropping one either at Christmas or end of yr 12 (with the exception of FM which is taken as a 4th).

The reasoning behind this is as follows:

Many kids take completely new subjects at A level because they fancy the sound of them but have never studied them eg. sociology, psychology, economics, politics.

If they are not what they thought they would be or they don't actually like them they can drop it and continue with 3.

Also even subjects that they have done before and get an A*(8/9) at gcse can be a big step up a level at A level (notably chemistry, maths) and then they would be stuck with having to do a subject they just can't get to grips with at that level. It gives them a chance to drop the subject but still be taking 3 (giving them 3 grades for uni entry without having to repeat year 12).