Any Theatre-Folk about?

[NotTheatreFolk]

I need some advice on life the universe and everything.

I have somehow fallen into the role of producing a not-for-profit play. There are three of us; writer, director and actor. The budget is non-existent, but the response has been great so far and we have offers for more performances on a profit-split basis, which is fine for now.

Anyway, my point. We are all in it for the love of the thing, but where possible want to be paid for our work. Does anyone know how this would usually be split between the roles?

Obviously expenses come off first, then we would pay each for their work. Which is where the issue comes in: what are the going rates for something like this outside of London? A ballpark figure would be great - just something to start from, as I don’t have a clue. Everyone is being too fucking polite to give me a figure. We are the most annoyingly nice company in the world - which is no good for getting organised. At first it was easier as we were all putting in equal time and effort, but as we go forward this is changing.

I’m sure there are lots of things I haven’t thought of (because this is not my area of expertise), so any advice or pointers would be gratefully received.

I have googled, but there doesn’t seem to be any one answer, so I’m deferring to the mumsnet hive mind.

Yes we should have sorted all this earlier, but there was a good chance it would have all stopped if no one liked what we were doing. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Speak to equity? And maybe join one of the theatre groups on Facebook?

In my experience of non-profit theatre, the director is usually the only one who gets paid. Both the actor and writer are expected to do it as a hobby or for “exposure”.

JLP good advice, I just wanted to have some idea of how things work before I begun

Llamas, that’s good to know too

Not saying I agree with it. IMO profits should be split equally, or at least allocated on the basis of effort and time invested. No idea why there seems to be a culture of only paying the director?

This would be profit share, surely? So a three way split.

Unless the company is making mega money from these performances, that would enable it to grow. In which case you would pay equity minimum rates and keep the rest in the company

OP more details needed - although I appreciate you may not want to give them if you think it would be outing.

Are you a professional company?
Do any of the three people involved make their living in theatre? Or would the earnings from this be nice extra money for you?
How much time and effort is going to be needed?

You sound quite new and naive to this - you've 'somehow fallen into the role of' producer/director (you've used both terms but they're not the same).

I would also go for a three way split, but it depends if any of you have other jobs, if this is going to take you away from them, if this is going to be a long term commitment - there are all kinds of things to consider. And getting this off on a formal, agreed basis would help rule out problems later.

Agree with hooliodancer - this is a profit share production so there must be a three way split of all profit after expenses. End of. Never heard of the director being the only one to be paid - unless it's 'Am Dram' club who have hired in the services of a professional director.

All professional, though director is most “hobbyist” (I’m not the director). Original plan was for director to produce, but they have stepped back now.

I think the plan should be where possible to pay for time spent (so rehearsal, performance, teching, etc), and then anything extra is potentially profit share split evenly.

And yes, this is not my area at all, hence utter cluelessness. I have fallen into this role somewhat and need some guidance (you are all wonderful)

So actually there are four of you involved - actor, writer, director and you?

Equity minimum rates should be available on their website - that’d be the best starting point! Break a leg with it.

I think the plan should be where possible to pay for time spent (so rehearsal, performance, teching, etc), and then anything extra is potentially profit share split evenly.

There won't be profit past the point where people are paid a wage for their time (I've worked in theatre my whole adult life). Most small scale theatre needs a level of subsidy and does not turn any profit at all.

I'd advocate paying everyone equally for time invested - I work in an ensemble and it's what we've always done and is a much fairer way of doing things. ITC have a basic rate that is recommended per week which might be a place to start. Realistically in theatre people's day rates only start going up when they are so in demand that they could command higher elsewhere.

That’s all really helpful. I think equal pay for time put in makes the most sense. Not expecting profits beyond that, but want to have every possibility covered

This has all been immensely helpful, thank you

Minimum wage or higher for hours worked if you can. But it sounds like you're not at a stage to pay that, so equal profit share. (I won't work for profit share, because there is never any profit, therefore never any pay )

Wise freda!

That is the best plan.

The way it is done is not to pay for time spent then split the profit. You just split the profit.

Profit share is kind of a misnomer, as have others have said, it's not really a profit, it's just income.

It's a play. Is there really, honestly likely to be any money left at the end of the project?

Good luck, OP!

Just think positive- at least if you're all annoyingly nice, you'll all still be talking to one another afterwards.

Suzanne, I like your thinking