WWYD re creepy FIL

[TripleRocks]

This is a bit of a long story so I will try and condense without having to drip feed.

Also, please bear with me because I need some help to figure this out.

FIL is a creep. He's touchy feely if he finds himself alone in a room with me. Examples are letting his hand rest touching my thigh, bit of side boob grazage, standing too close, touching my feet with his under the table and generally freaking me out. I've been putting up with it for ages - years.

We don't see them that regularly (say monthly) and since I give him a very wide berth he only manages to do it about 50% of the time. Anyhow, I've only recently confessed to DH about it and whilst he's furious we've both managed to do a fairly good job of minimising it and carrying on as before. Our plan was that I now strongly move myself away when he's up to his tricks instead of just inwardly cringing and trying to ignore. Anyhow, I think it's been giving me some confidence back and I think I'm now moving out of denial about this and am actually feeling pretty angry.

Things have come to a head because Mil and FIL were due to mind the kids for a few hours this afternoon. This is about the third time they have done so ever (DD is 4, DS is 1). Hopefully you will be glad to read that I have come to my senses during the night that this is NOT ok as I don't trust him with my DD while I'm not there. I guess I thought it was OK as Mil was going to be there, but yeah - it's not happening. I have spoken to DH this morning and he agrees with me.

Now the problem I have is, going forward - what should I do? Now I'm starting to wake up and smell the coffee. Wait till he does it again and give him a massive piece of my mind he won't forget? Ask DH to speak to him (ie cause a family row) ? Refuse to go there? If I can get him to stop, how do I know DD is safe from his creepy ways? Is cutting off contact proportionate? What about the Dc's relationship with Mil. So many questions. Can anyone help me gain a sense of perspective? Tia

It's a tricky one. I think if it were me, I would announce loudly if he went to 'creep' on me again 'I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH YOU TOUCHING ME THERE.'

In my honest opinion, I wouldn't not allow him to watch after my children. There is a very big leap from being a bit of a creep to assuming he is going to do something untoward to his 4 year old granddaughter, unless there has been a situation where you would question his motives towards her?

I think your mil will have an inkling ready about this

Sounds like a dirty old man.

Next time he puts his wandering hands on you call him out in it very loudly. He knows exactly what he is doing and because he has been getting away with it for so long he won't be expecting it. He will hopefully get a shock and stop doing it after you have done that once or twice infront of DH and MIL.

I agree with mioxx that it's a big jump between copping a feel of you and doing something to your DD but I understand why you don't want them babysitting.

Oh God, this is awful and I am sorry you have put up with it for so long.

First off, you are correct not to leave either of your children with him.

Secondly, you will never be able to trust him with your children.

Thirdly, he will not stop or change.

You may be able to get away with making excuses but probably not for long before it looks suspicious.

How do you think your MIL would respond if you told her what he had been doing? You might be able to make it so that she looks after your children only when he is not present.

The man has clearly got no sense of decency and is sexually harassing you constantly. No reason to think he will not do the same to your son or daughter.

Ultimately I don't trust him with my DC and whether or not he would actually do anything is not a risk I'm prepared to take. I know it's a jump but I'm going with my gut.

I trust MIL but she can't be in the room at all times and I wouldn't put it past her to be completely clueless about this.

The man's a coward and a pathetic creep. I need to stop being scared of him (easier said than done).

I want to tell him if he ever makes me feel uncomfortable again, I will take my DC, get in the car and he will never see any of us again. That's how angry I feel.

If I do that and he backs off, and he has no unsupervised contact with my DC, have I done enough to keep them safe?

Triple,

it's brilliant that you are so angry about this. It really is fantastic to hear.

What I will say is that however much you shout at him, whatever threats you make, he will not listen because he already doesn't respect you. He has been abusing you for years. He doesn't give a shit how you feel, indeed he gets off on it, the fact you were too afraid to speak out or call him on it or tell anyone.

By telling DH you have taken away that power but it doesn't make him Ok. He does not respect you, this was not a drunken one off, it's been consistent.

Usually (I learned this when I was sexually assaulted) men like this get off on the power t gives them, not the sex itself - they get a thrill from seeing you squirm, knowing it makes you uncomfortable.
It's sick but that's how it is.

I think you need to accept that this man is an arse and he will never be the lovely FIL/Grandad you want him to be.

How you manage his contact with the children is up to you, but don't expect him to care or to change.

I'm not sure I have the balls to speak to Mil about this... I'd be scared he'd deny it and she wouldn't believe me and it would cause a family row. Also, she is not in great health and is very a anxious person. They are both retired and never apart.

Luckily, we don't rely on them for childcare and there's no real reason why DH and I could not be present at all times. But is that enough? What about as my DC get older and more independent of me? Maybe I can cross that bridge when we come to it

If he does it to you as an adult I shudder to think what he could do with a child.

To be honest, minimising it is not going to stop it. You really need to not be in a room with him ever again - or at the very least, call him out on it publicly if he ever does it again.

I am not surprised she is anxious!

Tbh I would minimise the contact you have with them totally - don't minimise the behaviour but just avoid seeing them. Or send DH alone maybe?

If someone had treated me like he has treated you, over a number of years, I would have no hesitation in stopping any contact completely at least while I processed my own feelings.

He doesn't deserve to hear from you ever again.

What I'm trying so badly to say is that you are in a very strong position, and you are building a wall in your head that anything he does will bounce off and not affect you any more.

This is for your benefit. It won't affect him. However I suspect he will recognise the change in your attitude and in the way you respond to/look at him, and that may be enough to prevent him continuing to harass you. He will possibly pick up that you're no longer afraid of him and you hold him in contempt, which is great.

That doesn't mean he can be trusted though around anyone at all, especially children.

This is really helping.

I know he won't change and I can never ever trust him. The man's a bit of a joke anyway so no loss there.

I guess it's becoming clear that I want a way we can all maintain our relationship with MIL without any risk to the DC.

I'm mad with myself for sweeping this under the carpet for so long. But now I'm facing it and have started to take back control I'm actually shocked at the level of distain and anger that's bubbling up. This is how I should have been feeling/behaving all along!

Sorry you've been subjected to this man, I'm glad you've been able to tell your DH, that must've been a very difficult conversation.
Go with your gut feeling. This man is a creep, his sense of entitlement to touch somebody inappropriately is something he gets off on, it's all about the power.
If MIL knows how he behaves but looks the other way or laughs it off as, it's just how he is, he means no harm. Then she won't be able to protect the children.
If she doesn't know, she needs too.

Triple this is normal - in fact it's one very huge reason why a lot of women stay with abusive men for a long time. Feeling the anger is emotionally draining and quite hard work, just processing it - though it is cathartic too and very healthy - but knowing you are going to have to get angry about something, can make it hard to face and the longer it goes on and the more anger builds up 'in store', the harder it feels to open the floodgates.

You have done so well.

I think DH will probably be able to help you work out a plan that enables you to continue seeing his mother, and it isn't necessary to get openly angry with FIL or say anything as long as you guys know where you stand and what your boundaries are. He doesn't need to be told.

As the dust settles you will know what to do and how best to manage it. I hope that she is able to fit in with your plan whatever it is, and doesn't get funny about it, and that you can manage the whole situation in the optimal way.

Best of luck and post as much as you like about it as you go along.

Don't be mad with yourself, what he has been doing has messed with your head, clarity takes time. You have the power now.

I guess it's becoming clear that I want a way we can all maintain our relationship with MIL without any risk to the DC.

Yes. She comes to yours and if FIL asks why he isn't invited, your husband tells him why. No dramas, no flummery - just that his behaviour makes you both uncomfortable and you are not putting your children at risk.

Tentacles idea is good.

Would you be able to maintain a relationship with MIL without FIL? I ask because you say they are both retired and spend all their time together so it sounds as though you can't have one without the other.

MIL probably does know what the old perv is up to and turns a blind eye. People will have told her over the years but as someone says up thread she will claim it's "just his way"

You won't be the only one he has done this to. Would you go NC?

Honestly you don't need one more time.

Just go from today. DH knows how you feel so you havnt just sprung it on him.

I used to have a creepy neighbour who always made me sit in his knee, his hand would rest on the inside of my hand. I knew it was creepy but none of the adults batted an eye so I just tried to avoid him.

I think you need to leave the children visitation completely out of this confrontation with him, as that's an irrational fear at this point, and you need focus solely on the sexual advances he HAS BEEN making for years.

If you hint at not trusting him around a child because he makes advances on an adult he's not related to -- that will become the focus and it'll end up used against you to make you look like the unreasonable one.

I agree you need to confront him, but I think it should be your husband doing it in your presence. The fuckwit might say he thought it was mutual as you never objected, rather than deny it, so be prepared for anything.

MIL doesn't drive or travel well so contact is at theirs 9/10 and they come together.

Tbh I'm not worried about seeing him on my own behalf. If he tries any of his shit again (he will) I'll call him on it and we can all leave. Immediately. I'll leave it to FIL to explain to MIL why. I think his days of power tripping me are over.

I'm only concerned about protecting my DC at this point. If he crawls back under his rock and leaves me alone and me and DH are always present, is that enough to keep DD from harm? It's not a 100% guarantee is it. But going nc would deprive them of a great relationship with their MIL

I would think of a word / phrase to use that names what he does.
Ask your dh for help.
Use it as necessary , it removes the secrecy and draws attention to his action.

Eg, too close for comfort there grandad .

It is awful behaviour , I wouldn't make any excuse for it and I would call him out on it every time.

BTW I'm sounding all bolshy but I think I'm trying to talk myself up to get back more control. I have to be honest, if I ever found myself alone him and DH out of ear shot I'd probably still be shitting myself. Not that he'll do something serious, just that he'll be creepy again.
That's a conversation I need to have with DH though isn't it

Crje what about :

Do that again and you'll never see us again you dirty old perv