Should I train to be a teacher or move for a £60K paid job?

[Arthurlager]

I have a dilemma and would welcome opinions.

I am 39, have 3 DC, 11, 9, 6. I have a place on a teacher training course in September. It will mean no income for a year then a starting salary of £21K. And fab holidays of course. Things are already very tight financially. Just to keep my options open I have applied for, and got through to the last stage for, a job paying a starting salary of £60K, final salary pension, bonus scheme etc.

If I am offered the job, it would mean moving house to a part of the country I have always liked, moving schools etc, something I have never done before. But of course it is F/T so I would need a childminder or nanny as we have no family there.

So...what would you choose?

To clarify, Twllbach I really meant the bigger picture of curriculum development. In Scotland, we have been trying to plan for new exams with limited guidance from the Scottish Qualifications Authority, which has involved us having to basically guess what the new exams might include for planning purposes as they didn't release the detailed guidance until late on this year! The first cohort will begin these new courses in June, a few weeks after we pack the seniors off for study leave. I have no idea what actual lessons I'll be teaching yet as I'm neck high in Other Stuff right now and am hoping I can just use the resources from the old exams and develop it as I go.

I assume this is because the Scottish government thinks that we can just rustle up meaningful courses, complete with valid and reliable assessment and reporting procedures after an extra inservice or two, because that's basically all the extra time we're being given. It's always the same - it takes ages to pull new policies/strategies together properly if at all because we're too busy trying to keep our heads above water with our day-to-day workload.

But when it comes to the big stuff, we are overloaded with too much to do in the time available. Half a day's development time (prized and rare) does not develop an entire course properly. And if you have a big senior workload with certificate courses, they always have to take priority. And while I have always accepted teaching is not a 9-5 job and as I've said I do do work at home when I have to, I'll be damned if I run myself into the ground for unpaid overtime.

The McCrone pay deal we got in Scotland a decade ago was based on the premise of a 35 hour week (pro-rata). They were going to reduce the summer holidays by a week to bring staff in ahead of pupils and use this for curriculum development (would have been fine by me). Then they realised how much they extra they would have to pay us and scrapped that idea pretty quickly. You get what you pay for...

Hence, tinkering and adapting what you have already to finish the job as you have run out of time and need to get something together to put in front of the pupils, not least because there's no money for new resources. We are now encouraged to have lessons only on powerpoint as we don't have money to print off class sets of booklets, let alone buy any.

I guess every job requires its pound of flesh, but what saddens me is that my family are teachers (parents retired) and they have great stories about teaching, about pupils and the things they used to do.

How my dad helped his pupils build a car from a broken down model after school, how we couldn't go anywhere in Brixton/Dulwich without one of his pupils saying "hello, I'm working at xyz now, I remember when you..' shaking his hand.

'I guess every job requires its pound of flesh, but what saddens me is that my family are teachers (parents retired) and they have great stories about teaching, about pupils and the things they used to do. '

It's worse when those memories are first-hand. It seems like someone else's life when I look back.

Eek, sorry Beveridge

Wanted to add, I think teaching is possibly the best job ever. I laugh a lot every day, I see kids make progress, I explain and they understand, I build relationships, I know about them and their families. I see some stuff that is heartbreaking too but do my best to make the difference.

But thanks to the changes in the OfStED framework, my teaching, which has always been good, now 'requires improvement'. My classes, who pass the exams they need, are told they are only passing because exams have been 'dumbed down'. My school, which operates in exceptionally difficult circumstances, has no chance of being outstanding because of our catchment.

A kid said the other day 'You know these exams are getting harder, Miss? Is it because they think we are smarter?' How do I answer: No, it's because they want you to fail to prove a political point?

Gove is a cunt. Wilshaw is a bigger cunt. I have twenty years left to retirement and will be lucky to see out ten of those. I'd rather work in a cake shop.

These threads are so sad :( Occasionally in my darkest dreams I hope some mad bastard Gove will shorten holidays etc so that the last thing keeping teachers in the job will be gone. Then in the face of the mass exodus from teaching (and I'm talking rats from sinking ship level) then (and only then) might people become more aware of what teaching actually entails. And how little of it is 'the good bit' - teaching.

I dream that at this point we might have a bit of soul-searching on a national level about why teachers are treated like shit but to be honest I suspect the right wing press will just use it as one last chance to give teachers a kicking.

Anyway, take the 60K job if you get offered it. Save a few pounds and you'll still have the option of going into teaching later on if you want, maybe when your own kids are older.

I do think this thread is painting a dark picture of teaching that is not the full story.

When there are threads about who has a job they love, it is filled with teachers.

The last half term is also the hardest for secondary , ask the question again in six weeks and you may get a different answer.

Stealth, I'm childless and so are my two teacher friends - one currently on valium and the other desperate to get out.

I'm hoping to retrain into another field (have applied, just waiting for acceptance)

The kids are loads of fun - even in some very tough schools I've worked in. The kids wouldn't drive me away.

Gove, when asked about the impact on teachers of his plans of a longer school day and shorter holidays:

"Well, if you love what you do, you should be glad of the opportunity to do more of it".

Reading this thread with thread with interest. I'm a teacher and can relate to much of what as been said up thread. The demands, pressures, constantly changing goal posts make the job exhausting. A significant number f staff at my school suffer stress/anxiety/depression, some of them are still at work but some not. I was recently one of them.

I don't think it's straightforward enough to say "take the 60k job, OP" until she has a warts and all view of that position. I have a friend whose husband makes lots of money in his very senior role BUT this does have a huge impact on his family life and the time he spends with them. I don't know what demands the 60k role would have on you and your family, if it was no worse than teaching at least youd be better off and knackered!
But please make the decision with your eyes wide open.

Aris, how does it work with you DC attending the school where you work? Am thinking of applying for a job at my DCs school and wondering how it will work.

I'm racking my brains trying to think of something else I can do which can earn me a similar salary. I've been in teaching for 13 years and don't earn as much as others upthread. Perhaps it is because I am in a small private school. We don't have so much if the Government interference but all of the poor management issues, plus added parental pressure, and no perks or thanks for all the extra work we do including hours of what boils down to private tuition in our lunch breaks, before and after school.bplus the new curriculum. I'd love a job I can leave behind at the end of the day and allows me to return home as me, rather than a verge if a migraine physical and mental wreck. I want to be mum to my kids instead if struggling to keep my head off the table during dinner. Oh to have a 60k job where I could afford good childcare instead of having to take up the dregs once the powers that be announce my days off at the end of June for the forthcoming year commencing in August. I consider myself a well educated and committed teacher, but the job makes life so miserable and difficult. And as someone else said the Groundhog Day relentlessness of the predictable cycle of stress through the year is so depressing.

Arisbottle, it must be said that when teacher threads come up on here, you tend to be the exception that shines out as a beacon of joy and organisation amidst the gloom though.
I'm genuinely delighted that it's working for you.

Did Gove say that? That both surprises me ( that anyone can be such a massive idiot) and doesn't. I mean, it's Gove. Fucker.

I have posted negative threads about teaching . Earlier in the year I was exhausted post miscarriage and was definitely on a downer about my job. But when I look back I can see that was not about my job but that I was not in a good place . When you are tired teaching is a relentless drain, but I suspect that is the case for most professionals jobs .

DH has just snorted at the thought of me being a beacon of organisation.

He doesn't appreciate you.
You are usually upbeat and manage what you have to do without working the ridiculous hours necessary for some of us. That takes organisation and the rest.

He does appreciate me . Organisation is just not my forte. Avoiding long working hours is though.

breatheslowly I would love to know what you do now. Could you tell us? All graduate / professional level jobs I've had have involved significantly longer hours than the standard working day.

I'd rather not say as it would probably out me, but lots of office jobs are 9-5.30 with just a bit of overtime occassionally.

Are they? My husband regularly works silly hours and often away from home for a similar salary to my teaching one. We'd both consider something 9 to 5 but I thought they didn't exist anymore or were basic level.

To get a similar salary to teaching you would probably need to do some qualifications, but I have worked in a number of offices and many have a 9-5.30 culture, though some do not.

It's not just the hours though.

I'm sure most teachers wouldn't mind working office hours - if the pressure wasn't so hideous.

Take the job - DO NOT DO TEACHING (I am a teacher). What is the 60K job? I'm looking round all the time for something to get out of teaching for!

I could do other qualifications. I picked up a first in psych with the ou in my spare time. I just have done teaching for so long and am around people that work long hours. Would love to know how to get a 9 to 5 go this day and age!

go for the 60mk job. i always wanted to teach and loved teaching for 10 yrs but even i'm getting fed up of the pressure and negativity (never thought i'd say that). if i was 18 and knew what i know now i don't think i'd choose teaching as a career. I'm struggling with 3 dcs and nearly 15 yrs experience. couldn't imagine training and those 1st few yrs with a family.

if the other job isn't awful and doesn't have a great deal of 'take-home' work, i'd say it's a no brainer.

Not read it all, just shocked that any where still offers final salary pensions, I thought they had died! I'd take ANY job offering one of those.