Things Girls Should Know - what are your thoughts?

[KateMumsnet]

Last week, author and Mumsnet Blogger Kate Figes appeared on Woman's Hour with Steve Biddulph, author of the recently published Raising Girls.

The programme sparked plenty of discussion, and inspired a couple of interesting posts from Kate, who often writes about being the mother of teenage girls. The first (Things Girls Should Know About Bodies) - is here, and yesterday's post (Things Girls Should Know About Boys) is here.

It got us thinking here about things we'd like our daughters to know when they're older - and we thought we'd throw the discussion open to you. So, what are your own Things That Girls Should Know? Share your thoughts (and URLs if you blog) here.

How to ride, swim, build a den in the countryside, look after a dog and how to comfort a sad friend. If they manage all this then they'll be fine.

I don't spend any time discussing controlling friends or body image with my daughters. I think going on and on about it is pointless. Teach them to be physically strong and fit, how to be kind and not to take themselves too seriously. My daughters have never moaned about their body image and to be honest I wouldn't be very sympathetic if they did. They are healthy and in one piece and should be grateful for that, if they are obsessing about weight and appearance I would feel as though I had failed, it is boring and makes them boring.

Pony
I can't begin to tell you how many women have told me that they recognise the 'red flags' of controlling relationships in retrospect - years after leaving an abusive partner.

We are talking of sneaky, manipulative and difficult to spot behaviour that doesn't happen overnight.

Being able to recognise it might help my girl run fast in the opposite direction if she meets such a man. Teaching it from an early age as part of talking about bullying is important cause some girls get involved with men like this while still in their teens.

Girls don't just have to be physically strong, they need to be able to defend themselves against bullying - be it in school, in the workplace or in a relationship.

I wouldn't dream of having to explain controlling behaviour to them. If they are happy and confident in their own skin I doubt they will suffer with this. If they do, hopefully they will learn from it and move on. If the sad day comes when they are involved with an abusive man (god forbid) I will offer them a place to stay. It will be up to them to get themselves out of it. Yes, they've met bullying and bitchy girls and I have taught them to laugh at it and see it for what it is - jealousy and ignorance.

And I firmly believe that being physically strong and being able to do 'daring' things like riding or diving helps girls in ways that we can't underestimate.

The point is to prevent them getting involved with an abusive man.

Men don't suddenly become abusive overnight. There is a slow process that - if you know the signs - can perhaps be recognised and escaped from.

Do your kids a favour - even if you don't agree with what I'm saying - google 'red flags of abusive behaviour' or read the links I posted. You don't have to speak to the kids about this, but at least open your mind to this and read about it.

Why wouldn't you want to protect them from a life of abuse? And don't think that being strong confident women will protect them. I know plenty of women who I would have describes as confident, who were abused by their partners.

Giving them lots of self-esteem and surrounding them with nice people so they understand how nice people work probably helps. I have to say it hasn't ever occurred to me to even think about it, I have never lived or gone out with an abusive man, I don't think I even know any. I've met a few idiots in my time but they haven't really featured on my radar. I know there are lots of women who obsess over everything men say and do which I find terribly pathetic.

I only like nice men and luckily all the men I know are nice. There's absolutely nothing to make me think my daughters won't have the same experience. If you are saying that a nice kind man can turn into an abusive monster overnight then we are all doomed. If by 'red flags' you mean realising that some blokes are prats then you discover that when you are at university.

"I tell dd that girls are much better than boys" - God, what a role model.

I despair at some of the ridiculous comments here.

Back2two - I'm with you.

Pony
You've been lucky then. You don't know that your kids will be that lucky.

I don't mean nice men who turn into abusers overnight. I mean abusers who pretend to be nice.

No one would get involved with an abusive men if it was clear from the start that he was an abuser. That's how they get their victims. By appearing to be lovely and kind, loving and thoughtful.

I don't want to take this thread off topic but if you want to know more, would be happy to discuss this on another thread.

And I think it's worth saying here that women can abuse men in this way just as they can abuse their female friends like this. It's probably worthwhile everyone knowing that you can't always judge a book by its cover.

I want to go and live in the Center-Parcs style geodesic dome where Pony's house is, which is a sunique exclusion zone, the only place in the world where girls are not judged on their appearance and therefore get no hang ups about it

it is a bit like that. We live in the country and have lots of animals and the girls are expected to help. I'm not interested if any of my girls are worried because their boobs are too small/they don't have nice hair. They can obsess quietly by themselves if they must because they know I'd just tell them to pull themselves together. If there's nothing you can do about it, its not worth wasting time thinking about. There's plenty of positive things you could be doing instead. Happiness is a state of mind, you can be happy cleaning up dog shit if you so choose.

I tell my teen DD that nothing is really the end of the world.

i,d like girls to think they can be independent young women be somebody and achieve all there goals by themselfs without relying on men.

"Achieve all their goals by themselves without relying on men"

That's all well and good (up to a point) until you start bringing children into the equation.
Then there's the question of whether the children will have a Father and in what ways he will be involved in supporting his children and indeed his partner.

Life isn't a level playing field for women and men for all sorts of reasons.

Sparklyboots - I think your comments most closely reflect mine. There's lots of evidence around of how these social perceptions change with time and I think I would also highlight examples of this to my children.

Save the last category (escalation), the boy I dated from age 17-21 ticked every single box in that Red Flags article. Every single one. For four years.

As a teenager, I was confident enough to sing solos in front of an audience and perform in the school drama club. I played two team sports. My father taught me how to throw a decent punch and defend myself physically. I made my school's Honor Roll and kept good grades in advanced track classes. I was taller and physically stronger than several boys in my school. My parents are still married and have a healthy, respectful relationship. My mother and father both have hobbies and interests of their own, separate from each other. Mom, in particular, has always had a life of her own outwith my father, my brother and me; and my father has always supported and encouraged this.

And yet, at age 17, I believed my boyfriend when he said I was a bad girlfriend for going out with my girlfriends to the mall and not inviting him. At age 18, I believed my boyfriend when he told me I should be "putting him first" and should prefer to sleep in his college dorm room, rather than my own. At age 19, I believed him when he said the girls I tried to make friends with were dumb, and were trying to interfere with our relationship. At age 20, when I finally broke up with him, I believed him when he said I'd never find anyone as sexually compatible with me as he was. And so I kept seeing him and having sex with him for another year, at age 21.

Controlling relationships really can happen to anyone. Even if you think they are bold, confident and strong. Even if you think you've set a fine example. Even if you think it couldn't possible happen to your daughter or son, because surely they are far too intelligent to fall for that.

Emotional maturity does not always arrive when it should. So I will absolutely tell my stepdaughter over and over again what those red flags are, and what she should expect from a decent relationship. I will spell it out. And I'll be spelling it out long before dating and the pressure to have a boyfriend is on her mind!

when i meant relying on men i meant when i was growing up i never felt love and thought that if i could have a mans love everything would be ok instead of going out there and making somthing of myself. yes a man role is very very inportant especially when children come into the equation. i wish id have had the confidence to do somthing with my life instead of thinking i was going to get pregant and everything would be allright seems that is the trap most young girls take if they have low confidence an the system in schooling has let them down take them to very dark sad places.

gosh, my DD1 is 6, so haven't really thought about the big stuff, but did take very seriously when a boy in her class tried to undermine her confidence academically. It was reported to her teacher who quite rightly took it up as bullying behaviour and his parents were called in by the head teacher.

The boy now wants to 'friend' DD1, and has invited her over to his house.

I'm not over it, even if she is

I love your post upthread thunksheadontable and I totally agree-all the woman in my family have been formidable self determinists, money or no money.
My grandma was a full time working single parent after losing two husbands, and my Nanna was a highly skilled artisan who , despite quitting work when she finally married (aged 35!) always knew she had the resources to make her own way in the world due to her skills.
It's also true about imposing our insecurities and frustrations on our children. That is easier said than done, but sometimes the best thing is to wait until our dc get stuck, and then gently try and help them find their way, rather than impose a rigid set of rules on them (other than the golden rule of course.)

I like your posts, ponydilemma. My daughter's greatest delight is sorting the horse poo from the sheep poo in her granny's fields. She's 9 and has as little time for worrying about her appearance as her granny and I do.

I want my DD8 to know about how to manage finances - from earning money, saving it, planning for her retirement -, how to change a wheel on a car, why it's important to vote, why financial and emotional independence matters for both parties [and this is achievable even when one of you doesn't work], why education matters and the choices it gives you.

There's also plenty of stuff I want my DS to know too! Most of it is the same tbh.

I'm sorry you had to go through that,
Probably.

My DD is quite sheltered from the harsh realities of life but I consider it my responsibility to prepare her for the time when she leaves the the nest.

I don't talk about these things all the time but occasionally we talk about it when it comes up in conversation -
Eg if someone is being Nasty at school

Never to take a no from life. Keep on trying until it becomes a yes. In other words, never take a no or abuse as your just deserts.

Yes, horses are pretty good at teaching this at pony.