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Things Girls Should Know - what are your thoughts?

249 replies

KateMumsnet · 30/01/2013 11:10

Last week, author and Mumsnet Blogger Kate Figes appeared on Woman's Hour with Steve Biddulph, author of the recently published Raising Girls.

The programme sparked plenty of discussion, and inspired a couple of interesting posts from Kate, who often writes about being the mother of teenage girls. The first (Things Girls Should Know About Bodies) - is here, and yesterday's post (Things Girls Should Know About Boys) is here.

It got us thinking here about things we'd like our daughters to know when they're older - and we thought we'd throw the discussion open to you. So, what are your own Things That Girls Should Know? Share your thoughts (and URLs if you blog) here.

OP posts:
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IfNotNowThenWhen · 30/01/2013 20:56

If I want sex with a man they can say whatever they like. If they are crap at it, then I won't respect them.

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thunksheadontable · 30/01/2013 21:01

Not as a mother of boys but as a WOMAN, I find a lot of this advice alarming.
I don't want to raise any child of mine to feel they can never trust or put faith in anyone or, indeed, to push my fears or insecurities borne of my experience onto them.

My father told me not to trust men, they will tell you they love you for sex when I first went to him at 20 to tell him my then-boyfriend had said the three magic words. Totally fucked me up that sort of attitude. Turned out the sex fiend has stuck around 15 years on and is loving, kind and caring and not the animal my father might have painted him to be in my eyes.

All this financial independence buys self-determination nonsense also irritates me despite the truth in the value of money. My grandmother, an abused woman with no qualifications or training, left her husband at the age of 58 and THEN became a childcarer, working until she was 70. She also worked like a demon with her household budget and kept 8 kids fed and watered and in clothes with a pittance, and when she finally left, went to counselling, set up a new home with no support from anyone and has made literally hundreds of friends in the 32 years she has been out of that house.

Money didn't give her freedom, nor did lack of it trap her. What trapped her was the cultural expectation that she couldn't leave and a world where she wouldn't have been able to make money as a woman (this was when there was still a marriage ban). My grandmother ALWAYS was whole and self-determining even when in the throes of a horrific abusive relationship. She always argued back, she was not beaten down even if her bones were broken. She raised her kids to be kind and to have self-worth and remarkably they all ended up highly educated, decent law abiding citizens who didn't repeat any of their father's behaviour or end up in relationships where they were abused as she was. Money didn't make that happen. She made that happen. You are whole as you are, with or without money. Money just gives certain choices BUT if you find yourself without it, the strength is in finding another way, not in having a particular job or set of qualifications at that time. Women's strength is not to buyable or to be bought. It just is.

I think advice in general is overrated, and I think as a parent your job first and foremost is to be mindful. To parent in the moment, not to impose your fears and frustrations and ideologies on your children but to see them as they are, to run alongside them in the lap of the relay of life that you share, to be present with them as they work the world out. This doesn't mean you don't share your perspectives and experiences, just that you realise that your understanding of the world is as limited as any one else's: we all see but through a glass darkly.

I think anything that has the potential to limit your child's excitement for and enthusiasm about the world has to be shared with extreme caution and certainly blanket generalisations that encourage distrust and fear wouldn't be what I would want to pass on to any daughter, or any son. I don't want to tell my daughter to be careful not to be raped at night nor my son not to rape at night. Both impose a world view that is pretty bloody miserable, even if it is a reality that these things happen. I'd rather teach them both to really pause and listen to that inner voice that makes them feel comfortable or not in the moment (e.g. to listen to that instinct that says you are unsafe somewhere), I'd rather them to make mindful decisions that were in keeping with their values for themselves and for the world (e.g. not acting with violence towards anyone)... but if they don't, that's sort of up to them.

Our children have a right to their own sovereignty. We can try to pass on messages that we think are useful but in the end of the day, they may not be interested in those messages and/or no matter what we do, they may end up an abuser or in an abusive relationship or doing terrible things or having terrible things done to them. We have so little control and what difference we usually make is only through our actions and not our words. If you want strong, assertive kids who don't let themselves be abused - be a strong, assertive woman who doesn't let yourself be abused.. but be aware that even this might not stop your daughter being in that situation. It's just so complex.

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feministefatale · 30/01/2013 21:05

But if your children are having sex because they want to and not to make some one they love happy then it won't work sneeze.

So maybe the key is to make sure they have healthy ideas about sex being something you do for fun not as a bargaining chip.

mine are babies though so I can say all this with out really worrying about it!

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ithaka · 30/01/2013 21:06

My mum always used to tell me 'boys are only human being too'. They are not to be hero worshiped or feared - they have the same insecurities and need for love that we do.

I have been very lucky in my relationships with men (and have a happy long term marriage) - my mum spoke sense!

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MmeLindor · 30/01/2013 21:09

'I think anything that has the potential to limit your child's excitement for and enthusiasm about the world has to be shared with extreme caution and certainly blanket generalisations that encourage distrust and fear wouldn't be what I would want to pass on to any daughter, or any son.'

I totally agree with that.

At the same time, I do think that some warnings should be given - such as a warning against people who will try to control others. This could be other girls, or a potential partner / boyfriend.

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thunksheadontable · 30/01/2013 21:22

MmeLindor, it's hard though, isn't it? I shared a room with this terribly charismatic girl back in university who everyone thought was amazing initially, and it took a long time before anyone really saw how manipulative and controlling she was. How do you warn your child about these kind of things when the ways in which that sort of personality presents can be so idiosyncratic? This girl basically became a mirror, she could be anything she worked out you wanted/needed.. I think you can share these experiences with your kids but in some ways, they have to find out for themselves. Though my mother did offer to buy me a ghettoblaster (!!!!) if I said I wouldn't move in with this girl a third year running because she could see what I couldn't!

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Back2Two · 30/01/2013 21:29

I like your mums advice ithaka

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Smudging · 30/01/2013 21:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyMaryCrawley · 30/01/2013 21:49

Everyone is too busy worrying about what everyone else thinks of them to think the things about you that you're worried they're thinking.

Show your cleavage OR your legs, never both. Or don't show anything if you'd rather not.

Don't believe the marketing. Everything and everyone is airbrushed.

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happybubblebrain · 30/01/2013 21:51

I tell dd that girls are much better than boys.
I was saying that when I was 5 and I'm still staying it.
One day men will realise and know their place.

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Birthhippy9 · 30/01/2013 21:52

How to read her own fertility and health and so not be reliant on devises or drugs.

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Corygal · 30/01/2013 21:56

Your main competitor in life should be yourself.

Attention from other people is not an end in itself.

Beauty won't bring the rewards everyone suggests it will. It doesn't get you anywhere, really.

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MmeLindor · 30/01/2013 22:12

Thunks
I wrote this about controlling relationships - aimed at preteen girls:


Have you ever had a friend who behaves like this:



Always wants to spend time with you and doesn?t like when you play with others

Gets angry if you don?t do what she wants to do

Contacts you all the time, even when you have gone home.

Wants to be like you, or wants you to be like her. Copies your clothes and your hairstyle

Doesn?t take notice of your feelings, it is all about what she wants

Makes a fool of you in front of others, to make them laugh

If you object to this, tells you that you have no sense of humour, and that it was just a joke

Is moody and unpredictable, and blames you for anything that goes wrong

When you do something she doesn?t like, she ?punishes? you by ignoring you, or playing with someone else

Pinches, kicks or hits you


You might still think of this girl as your friend, and she can be a lot of fun at times, and you want to continue to spend time with her.

We would call her controlling. She wants to get her own way, and she does this by making you feel bad about yourself.




I think that being able to recognise someone like your Uni friend is incredibly important.

If girls can recognise that in their school friends, they are more likely to recognise it in an adult - whether it is an abusive man, or a manipulative colleague.

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thunksheadontable · 30/01/2013 22:28

I like that advice... I swear, it is like reading a personality profile of that girl!!

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LineRunner · 30/01/2013 22:39

Things girl should know?

Feminism
Calculus

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HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 30/01/2013 22:43

I just thought of another really important one - take charge of your own fertility and always be responsible for your own contraception.

Haven't quite had to tackle this one yet as DD1 is only 9, but I am sure the day is coming faster than I care to think.

holy fuck I have just freaked myself right out

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mathanxiety · 31/01/2013 07:21

That there are no shortcuts to financial security. Do it yourself. Don't rely on anyone else.

To always put your best foot forward and not talk yourself down in front of others. To never jump up to make or serve the coffee or hand around food, and never, ever to clean or tidy up an office or conference room used by the group you are with.

That Feminist is not a dirty word.

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mathanxiety · 31/01/2013 07:23

Amen to that Linerunner -- girls should do calc and the highest level of science classes possible.

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ComradeJing · 31/01/2013 07:45

That trying to be popular in high school is like trying to be mayor of a town that won't exist in 4 years.

Drive is as important as intelligence. Looks aren't important at all.

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Back2Two · 31/01/2013 08:04

I tell dd that girls are much better than boys.
I was saying that when I was 5 and I'm still staying it.
One day men will realise and know their place


This thread has opened my eyes.
I despair.

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MmeLindor · 31/01/2013 08:15

Back2two
These are not the thoughts of the majority of parents. I don't think girls are better than boys, or that boys are hateful creatures just waiting for a chance to take advantage of my daughter. How could I, when it would mean I think less of my son - and the sons of my friends and family.

I join in you disquiet about those who are posting these kinds of comments.

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Back2Two · 31/01/2013 09:27

I hope so MmeL and I do appreciate that lots of women on here have some excellent advice that is not gender biased.

It's just depressing that people (women) are proud to admit that they are blithely passing on awful negative stereotyping and generalisations about boys and men. And this advice is the best they can give for apparently producing the next generation of balanced, individuals who will have successful relationships? If they can't see the flaws in this it is quite scary.

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AntimonySalts · 31/01/2013 09:29

I have a boy and a girl, and would say that there is one thing that both genders need to know. Namely that I like them, respect them, and think the world is a better place for having them in it. In turn, they both need to show consideration and respect for other people.

They need to know that I am always available for them (teenagers need a parent to be available just as much as toddlers do) when they need me to be available, not when it fits in with my schedule (my experience of girls particularly is that there is one important nugget in three hours of rambling on - but if you're not there, you will miss that crucial nugget).

This mundane, day-to-day communication and their absolute certainty that I will always be there (and that I will always tell them when I think their behaviour needs amending) gives them complete security. That in turn makes it much more likely that they will both make sensible, responsible decisions, and will respect other people, male and female alike. It doesn't guarantee it, but I think it gives them a better chance.

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EnjoyResponsibly · 31/01/2013 09:47

I tell dd that girls are much better than boys

What a well-rounded, well thought through attitude you have. Or are you trying and yet failing spectacularly to be funny?

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Ruk898 · 31/01/2013 09:48

I would tell both boys and girls to choose their friends and lovers and not just let themselves be chosen.

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