ELderly gran in care home and moving area - What is the best thing to do? Long sorry

[wheresmytractor]

Hi,

I'll give a bit of background....

My mum and her brother (my uncle) never really got on, he is a bit socially inept, has big debts etc. When my grandparents needed more family near, my mum moved them to be near her in Cornwall. That was 2002. In June 2006 my grandad died suddenly and in the August 2006 my mum died suddenly too. My gran was left alone.

I lived 80 miles away and was worried about her. I am an only child too so no siblings to share the load. At the time my uncle had left his family home and was living rough in a car. His estranged wife at the time told me about his debts and that he had opened credit cards in her name without her knowing, he is basically not to be trusted in anyway around money. My gran was 86 at the time and i decided to get enduring power of attorney so i could help her with her banking and stuff, and protect her. She was pleased for the support.

Several small strokes later, in 2009 she was not coping, lost most of her speech and very depressed and again I had to contact my uncle. He was dead against her moving into care, just saying she needed to go on prozac! I went against him and his wifes wishes (but with my grans wishes, she was so relieved) and moved her up to be near me in a care home. I basically think my uncle did not want his inheritance spent on care fees . At the time I had a toddler and was pregnant - very stressful.

I organised her house to be redecorated and was able to access her money to pay decorator, that has paid off, she now gets monthly rent. I have worked very hard to get her settled and have been seeing her twice a week most weeks.

Ok so now my situation is this: I am 6 months pregnant with number 3, my husband has a new job in a different area, so I will now be far away from her again. She is deteriorating mentally and is really like a little girl now. She obsesses over small things (her bath night inparticular), and her short term memory is poor. I have told uncle and aunt about our move and they have already said she should move up near them, but I am uneasy about their motives and I am sure I need to keep a tight rein on grans finances (to give you an idea of my uncle - she had been moved into care home only 2 weeks and he turned up and asked for 2 grand to pay bills - I have since taken her cheque book away)

So, should I:
1.leave her where she is and try and visit once a month

1. move her to be near me if she wants after christmas
2. move her to be near son (she has been adament she doesn't want to in the past)

SHe is 91, had vascular dementia and I am not sure of the impact of moving. Anyone had to do this? Any advice appreciated. I am getting stressed about this ( and moving, 2 small children and having a baby!)
What should I do?

PS thanks for reading this far, I know its long x x

My gut feeling would be to leave her where she is, where she's settled and knows the staff. Especially because of the dementia, the staff will know her and she will know them. I'm not saying this to be awful but if they care for her on a day in day out basis she probably has a closer relationship with them now (due to her dementia) than with you or her brother. That was certainly the case for my Gran anyway when she had dementia - the care home staff were the familiar faces and she would be confused as to whetehr I was me, my aunt, my mother or hte Avon lady.

Can you talk to the staff though and see what they think would be best? How often do you see her now, would she be upset by only seeing you once a month?

But definetly keep the cheque books from her. I had exactly the same problems with a cousin of mine who was on the take and had to take her bank cards, cheque books, etc. I'd take out spending money for her but give the cash to the care home staff who put in their safe (and registered it in). They would keep a log on what her spending money had been spent on - hairdresser, etc - so I knew my cousin hadn't turned up and taken £20 off her.

Sorry, its such a worry isn't it?

Well done for managing so well until now.

I think moving her now would be too stressful for everyone. I think your idea about visiting her once a month is a really good one.

Vascular dementia is horrid (guess you know that), and thinking logically she's unlikely to 'appreciate' a move (even if you thought it was in her best interests). Much like choosing a nursery - if you find one you're happy with it's worth sticking with.

What a nightmare for you - I have to say you've been a fantastic grand-daughter. Your mother would have been very proud indeed.

I think she probably needs to stay put. Visit when you can, keep in touch etc - but a move now, at her age and with the dementia, could be awful for her. You can always rethink when the dust has settled a bit - but keep her well away from the son.

I think I'd leave her where she is - where things are familiar to her.

What a brilliant grand-daughter you are.

Thanks for your kindness, that has bought tears to my eyes (i'm blaming the pregnancy ). I do hope my mum would have approved of all i've done so far, I wrote a letter to go in her coffin where I promised that I would always look after gran, and I am trying to honor that promise. I just know that my aunt and uncle are going to push to move her, and I am just going to have to keep putting them off I think as I don't want a family row. In my heart I know she will be better off staying put and will visit her on my own with the new baby for the first year or so, then see how it goes.

Does anyone have any experience of vascular dementia? She seems to do well, plateau and then suddenly another skill is lost, her inco pads seem more special needs than panty liners now (sorry tmi), she is getting more obsessive (gave me a bin bag of hoarded biscuits she must have been collecting for months last week, from the twice daily tea trolley visit) and her speech just echos mine, she rarely initiates interaction. How long does this last and whats next? How bad does it get and do they suffer alot? Poor old girl, she was such a strong lady in her day .

Thanks again all x

My gran had dementia/alzehimas. She was never assessed so not sure which and not really sure what the difference is. But mentally she just got worse and worse. She didn't know who people were, would ask why her husband hadn't come back from work (he'd died 20 years previously), didn't know who people were, would not know where she was and insist I take her home even though we were in the care home where she'd lived for a few years. Was distressing as she'd cry and beg me not to leave her, etc.

I don't really know if she suffered - probably yes at times if I'm honest as she did seem scared at times. But inbetween her being upset she seemed quite calm. The staff were very good with her and she liked them and got used to them which I think made a big difference.

Don't put your aunt and uncle off - just tell them straight that you are putting your Gran first and that it is not in her best interests to move her. Her current home/GP should back you up in this. Just be firm and say its not negotiable and don't enter into discussion about it. Good luck.

Sorry to hear that viva, its awful isn't it? Thanks, I know i need to be strong, just feel like my uncle should have the final say as he is her son and I am only the grand-daughter. Silly really as he has not given a shit about her up until now! I will stick to grans best interests, and keep bringing it back to that rather than what they want. Will update tomorrow when the conversation has been had and gran knows about my news.

I would echo VivaLeBeaver about your aunt and uncle. It is not in her best interests to be near them. You should explain your issues with them to the care home and your Nan's social worker, if she has one.

My Grandad had vascular dementia. I expect someone medically qualified will say that it can vary a lot from person to person.

In Grandad's case he went through a time of being child like and liking a teddy bear and playing with a mechanical toy mum got him. After that he went through a spell of re-enacting scenes from earlier in his life and he would give us roles and get cross if we didn't do what he expected. That bit was sort of interesting in a weird way as a window into when he was a lot younger. About that time it started to take a long time to get food/drink into him. He was fully incontinent by then too. He made various extra rude comments too. After that he was less capable and in more pain. I had one lovely moment when I took my new son with me to visit (he was in hospital) and he asked to swing him in a towel, like he used to do with us when we were small. I was very happy to see a small glimmer of the old him, and I think he understood that I was me, and DS was my son.

I echo others in saying well done for everything you have done so far with a young family. It can feel like you are looking after everyone at points!

How often do you see her at the minute? Will she notice that there is a drop in your visiting schedule? If not, do you have to tell her that you're moving? If I thought I could have got away with not telling my Gran something like this I probably wouldn't have as I'd have worryed about it upskittling her.

Until last month I saw her every sunday at my house (picked her up for the afternoon and dropped her back in time for tea), and once in the week. I have cut this down in the last month as I just couldn't cope with it anymore, as my sons are getting older and the weather warmer, they want to be out and about. ALso my pregnancy is harder this time around and I physically needed a break, yes moomaa it does feel that all I do is look after people! So the last month its been just on a Tuesday mornings at the care home (she is too wobbly for me to have her and a push chair with my spd aswell).
I think my uncle and aunt will tell her anyway.

The other thing is I have been called to go around at short notice to settle her, put her to bed when she gets bad (when she gets a bladder infection she gets really confused) and I won't be able to do this anymore and i don't want to lie to her.

No you're right, lying to her wouldn't be good.

I think I only thought of not mentioning it as my Gran was so confused it would have upset her, but then she'd have forgotten all about it. So she'd have been upset for no reason if you see what I mean.

Good luck with telling her.

I'm an OT and have seen people with varying degrees of Vascular Dementia. As everyone says - it does vary from person to person.

There are some common themes though - the biggest one is short term memory loss, then their longer term memory begins to be affected.

People are inclined to treat people with dementia as children, but the main difference is that they have a history and a wealth of knowledege/experience that they have gained throughout their lives. Sometimes this can be apparent, sometimes not, but it's always there.

I think that no matter how bad things appear to be, it should always be assumed that the person does understand, and does have capacity to understand decisions. Like the mooma's granddad - something was there, and you could never have predicted that those memories/techniques could still be accessed, but they were.

OP I think you sound fantastic. Good luck with whatever you decide.

op, I really think you have done fantastic by your gran and your mum, you deserve a big pat on the back!

I'm getting ready to go to work or I'd write more, I have some experience of what your going thru abd I really sympathise, in short I'd say stick to your guns, you do know best and you'll be able to live with yourself long after your gran had gone, your relatives won't.

I wanted to ask, how do you get power of attorney? i need this for my mum but I don't know where to start.

Thanks guys,
Well gran was clearly quite confused today, and the moment they arrived my aunt mouthed "lets not tell her now" which I nodded too. Gran slept for a lot of the visit and initiated no conversation. I think my uncle and aunt now realise the extent of her decline, and although they mentioned moving her they backed down pretty quickly. We are going to see how she does when I leave and see if she becomes distressed or not. Still not sure if i should even tell her i've moved - although she still visits so she might feel very rejected if that suddenly stops. I guess i'll cross that bridge when I come to it, I don't move for another 2 or 3 months so alot can happen in that time.

ssd, get in touch with a solicitor about power of attorney. You can't get enduring poa anymore, its now called lasting i think and is harder to authorise as far as i know. Your mum has to be in sound mind to ask you to act as one so if you think she is declining do it quickly. If I had left my gran and not got it, I think it would have been a very expensive and legal proceedure to gain access to her affairs after she is considered to be in mental decline. What was also good is that with the poa I could help her at the level she needed, just phone calls and sorting out her landlord insurance etc at first, i've only had full control of the cash card and cheque book for about a year when she kept forgetting her pin number.

Thanks for all the advice and insight into vascular dementia its been great to share it with you ladies x x

Hopefully your aunt and uncle will be more reasonable now then. I think that leaving telling her until you've moved/or just before is a good idea - otherwise she will just worry about it until then. Once you've moved and she sees you are still coming to see her hopefully she'll realise its going to be OK.