A friend of mine had a terrible experience at GAtwick airpoort ..what would you have done in her place?

[gypsymummy]

Ok I am going to try and sumamrise the story : a friend of mine travelling yesterday from gatwick airport with her two children experienced first hand the ugly side of the tough security measures that have lately been making a lot of headlines. Her 7 year old son ( who has learning difficulties)was asked to take his shoes off and wouldn't. My friend did her best but the boy would not take his shoes off and flew into a tantrum. So what happens next you ask? The secuirty personnel get all serious and demand the boy takes his shoes off.The mother keeps trying to explain the situation and to her dismay is told: his behaviour is NOT acceptable! They then call a superior security person and then amidst the boy's screaming and howling and kicking and beating four persons pin him down and take the pair of shoes off!!! My poor friend who was also carrying her 4 month old baby was so shocked she just sat and watched. Her son continued to fight and scream and she has bruises all over body because as soon as the shoes came off the boy went ballistic on her. She called me earlier from abroad and is detrmined NEVER to come to the UK again. She has absolutely no problem with security measures she is just horrified at the inhumane, insensitive, harsh and terrorist like behaviour of these airport security personnel. I myself am sizzling. Nothing can excuse this, not even the fact we were just faced with a failed terrorist plot.

I must add, my experience of flying in to the US was actually of a very poor screening process, with a very immobile guard sitting 10 ft away from teh metal detector just grunting & waiving everybody through.

I know which security regime gives me a better sense of security.

want2b - there's a difference between security & immigration.

i live in the US so prob have a similar range of experience to you - i would say that no particular country stands out as better/worse.

i found munich to be vvv thorough, but slow, belfast rude but efficient, detroit lovely, denver slow and heathrow the quickest.

a friend of mine used to travel on a South African passport & routinely had full body searches (naked ones) in every country she went to/from. also, going to the US embassy in london, babies, pushchairs etc all get searched.

actually, it doesn't matter whether you're travelling with your dh or the queen - for immigration you should go through the correct line. being 'confused' and getting in the wrong line is a standard ruse used by people who don't have the right travel documents.

either we should accept that security = invasion of privacy, or just accept a higher terrorist risk.

the only really safe way is for everyone to go through naked, pick up a credit card once through security, then buy what they want to take with them once through. but none of us would agree to that, so fingers up bums it is.

(though, in response to op, it should be done with some empathy)

However, the problem is that for me to complain meant I had to miss my flight. To wait more than an hour to see a manager is totally unacceptable. To be then told that I wasn't felt up like that because the security guard said so it just wrong.

Normally after a baggage search the security person will say something along the lines of 'thank you and I hope you enjoy your trip.'

The OP should tell her friend that complaining isn't going do anything to change the situation and as anonandlikeit says, 'it isn't usual for the officer to apologise for carrying out a search.'

Kickass,

Agree re the tradeoff. Personally, reasonable though not ridiculous security and I am prepared to accept a miniscule terrorist risk in return.

Perfect safety =totalitarian state.

btw someone above mentioned a full scan..i just remembered that my friend did offer to those people to scan the boy instead and she was holding her 4 month old baby who was also crying at the time..imagine the scene..i can cause i have two kids..yes life sucks i agree but a line ,ust be drawn somewhere or we are just as bad as those we claim to be stopping.

fair enough scurry

I found it pretty shocking that this guy became so hostile completely unprovoked. Probably makes me more inclined to believe the scenario. If I hadn't experienced it I may be more dubious too

I don't think the staff attend charm school and probably feel they are not paid enough to be polite....it is a crap job but no excuse for being hostile.

"there isn't the space or the time (where are these 'quiet areas' to take upset children to?)for airport security to treat anyone with kid gloves"

Surely it would take far less time for one security guard to take an upset child off and quietly deal with the situation, leaving his/her 3 colleagues to process the other passengers, than it would for 4 people to pin down a screaming child? There aren't quiet areas at Gatwick airport security? I bet you tonight's dinner that there are.

The problem I have with the entire securty apparatus at airports is that no one has given a moments thought to how to minimise the cost, disruption, delay and distress it causes passenegers. No one cares. The entire burden of the increased security measures have been dumped on passengers. As a result, those who wish to do us harm have won. The more they can impose the cost, disruption, delay and distress on passengers the more they win.

Sensible Govts and airlines and airport authorities would have taken a different approach. They should have worked together to minimise the impact of this and sent a strong clear message to show that we will not curtail our way of life and our liberties in the face of terror.

That is how we win.

Airports will never put comfort of users above security, beenbeta.

Kickass - Just to make it clear. I was in the correct line going through immigration with DH.

The letter I got back said that it was not clear that we married because we had different last names. That answer was a pile of bull because I always carry my marriage certificate with my when I travel. All she had to do was ask to see it and I would have handed it to her. Both my DH and I were in the correct lane. This was proved as I went to the back of the same line and was seen by the same lady some 25mins later.

not really winning if bombs are getting onto planes though beenbeta.

Your friend's child was assaulted. There is no power for the security staff to carry out a forced search of anyone. As others have said, all they could do was to refuse to let your friend and her children board.

If I were your friend I would be writing a firm letter of complaint, demanding an investigation and apology.

She needs to complain big time. I think I'd have gone ballistic if someone had done that to my child, though that would probably have ended with us been arrested!

I do find someaiport security people to be awful, almost like they get a bit power trip out of it.

I flew last week and got there with my one tiny bottle in a resealable plastic bag. Guard glared at me and said in an awful manner "thats not good enough". My bag was too big. I politely pointed out that I only had one bottle in it and I'd hardly stuffed the bag full but no I had to buy a new bag.

I could understand it if my bag was full but there was one 50ml bottle in it. It was his attitude that annoyed me more than anything, no "I'm sorry but you'll have to buy a smaller bag etc". Really rude. You'd have thought I was breaking the law by having a bag an inch too wide. What happened to common sense?

scurryfunge/booyhoo - I am not suggesting there should be less security. Far form it. What I am saying is that Govt/airports/airlines should put a lot more effort into minimising its impact on passengers.

Lost count of the number of times we have bene through an airport to find massive queue and only half the scanners working. That is what I am talking about. No one cares enough to make sure all the scanners are working. If a passenger dares complain they are jumped on but no manager shows his/her face to make sure the system is working at a maximum capacity and in a way that minimises delay and distress.

ah. get you now beenbeta. for a moment i thought you were suggesting not searching people!!

I remember going through security at Gatwick 2 years ago when I was several months pregnant. I had a body search and asked the woman to be gentle with my bump as it was sensitive, but was happy to lift up my top so she could see it was just the bump. She said, no, manhandled me anyway and made me wince. She then had the cheek to tell me that I was being oversensitive. I said fine, asked for her name and details as I wanted to find out if she would still feel that way after I made an official complaint. She then got very aggressive with me but made them call a supervisor so I could get the details I needed. I then complained by going on to BAA website. I got an apology. Not enough but wanted them to know that it was unacceptable behaviour. I would suggest that OP's friend does the same.

Probably the same reason only half the tills are staffed in Sainsburys

want2b - correct line - sorry, only realised after i posted, BUT you are not allowed to go through at the same time as dh, you have to go one at a time and US immigration is v prone to sending people to back of line/redo etc, with NO sense of humour. with us, they let dd come throug with me (but not with dh!) & dh has to go through alone.

the thing is, this is still related to supply/demand. as long as flights are full, airlines will charge what they want, lines will be as long as they have to be etc. only if demand drops off will anyone care enough to increase passenger comfort. so it's our own fault, really.

Want2beSupermum, I'm sorry that this will sound rude, but your complaints are all very trivial compared to the OP, and quite beside the point. Assaulting a child cannot be compared to asking you to stand in a different queue.

scuryfunge - it is the same reason.

Its why I dont go to any supermarkets and just shop online.

It must have been very distrubing for the mother to see her child manhandled. Being groped is a somewhat similiar situation and I missed my flight so I could file a complaint and report the incident to the police. The police wouldn't take my complaint because they said it happened beyond security control so wasn't an area in their control. It isn't easy to do what I did when you are with two children.

If it were me in the ladies situation I would have taken names and called up the embassy when I got home. I would have followed it up with a letter to the embassy and Secretary of State for Transportation (Philip Hammond). However, I know from past experience it isn't worth doing it. I have never had an apology and nothing has changed.

DH and I always go through US immigration together even after taking different flights and we have never had a problem. He is on a greencard and I am now a US citizen. DH flies a lot and a couple of the immigration officers at Newark airport know him. When coming back from Canada a couple of weeks ago the immigration officer asked me where DH was as they hadn't seen him all week. We use Newark for 99% of flights taken. JFK is a nightmare and we avoid it all costs. Philly airport is quite well run and the immigration people are polite.

Travelling by air these days is hellish frankly. Which is why I would never do it with children. If I cannot get there by car, train or ferry, we are not going.

I've been the person picked out for extra security measures even before 9/11 (just lucky I guess) so much so that our corporate travel guy used to schedule in an extra 90 minutes to any flight transfers to allow me to get through the airport .

I can see this situation from both sides, the mum obviously doesn't want her kid manhandled and feels overwhelmed by the demands of two screaming kids in an airport with bolshy security guards. The security guards are fecking terrified because of the latest security warnings and are trying to make sure they check everyone.

And for the record yes white middle class families with babies have been terrorists and no doubt will be again sadly.

'US immigration is v prone to sending people to back of line/redo etc, with NO sense of humour. with us, they let dd come throug with me (but not with dh!) & dh has to go through alone.'

My DH who is a UK national went with us (we're all dual nationals) in the queue at Houston airport and got no problems.

He went after me, just explained we were here to visit my family with our children who were all US nationals by descent.

Chap talked him through it said, 'Have a nice stay!' and that was that.

I don't like flying there with all the children, but there's no much choice anymore as my father's health is too poor to permit his journeying here anymore. So we have to go there or he cannot see them at all.