A friend of mine had a terrible experience at GAtwick airpoort ..what would you have done in her place?

[gypsymummy]

Ok I am going to try and sumamrise the story : a friend of mine travelling yesterday from gatwick airport with her two children experienced first hand the ugly side of the tough security measures that have lately been making a lot of headlines. Her 7 year old son ( who has learning difficulties)was asked to take his shoes off and wouldn't. My friend did her best but the boy would not take his shoes off and flew into a tantrum. So what happens next you ask? The secuirty personnel get all serious and demand the boy takes his shoes off.The mother keeps trying to explain the situation and to her dismay is told: his behaviour is NOT acceptable! They then call a superior security person and then amidst the boy's screaming and howling and kicking and beating four persons pin him down and take the pair of shoes off!!! My poor friend who was also carrying her 4 month old baby was so shocked she just sat and watched. Her son continued to fight and scream and she has bruises all over body because as soon as the shoes came off the boy went ballistic on her. She called me earlier from abroad and is detrmined NEVER to come to the UK again. She has absolutely no problem with security measures she is just horrified at the inhumane, insensitive, harsh and terrorist like behaviour of these airport security personnel. I myself am sizzling. Nothing can excuse this, not even the fact we were just faced with a failed terrorist plot.

We went through Gatwick last May with our 11 month old son.

My wife was stopped and searched. She was made to open and taste a carton of prescription formula milk even though she explained that it would go off if opened. After we had finished faffing around with that charade, they decided to do the shoe thing, by which time our son was quite distressed.

Finally, to my complete disbelief, they said "we have to search your baby". I was torn between shock and laughter as they patted down our 11 month old son. Clearly not as distressing as OP, but something has clearly gone wrong with these people.

bloody hell [angry ]

it is not beyond terrorists to use children to conceal bombs so not unreasonable to search children, but I agree there is a way to do it wiht kindness.

scurry have you ever tried to get shoes of a child who is absoloutely adamant they aren't coming off? let alone a child who has learning difficulties and is stressed by so many strange faces making demands on him? yes teh mum could have taken his shoes off but i can pretty much guarantee that it would literally have been a wrestling match. and most likely both mum and boy would have been hurt. far better for security just to refuse entry. mum can take the boy away to a quieter area and talk him through what needs to happen.

Want2be - YABU in the first 2 instances you describe. Body searches are just that - of course in knickers is presumably a favoured hiding place. All airports (that I have been in) ask people to queue according to what passport they are travelling on, not who they would like to stand next to in the queue! And in the U.S and canada you will get a very stern short shrift if you stand anywher other than on the line in front of the desk- why did you stand to the side?

You sound generally unreasonable and stroppy, tbh.

scurry

ummm. The situation I described escalated whilst I was polite and co-operative , indeed very keen to cooperate as a calm enviroment enhances DS2s ability to comply.

I am not a daily mail reporter but the situation did indeed go tits up because a rude and heavy handed security guard shouted at my son, then me, then laid his hands on DS2 all the while shouting. He kicked the inside of ds2s feet to push them apart - not with any intent to hurt him but still unessecary and combative.

There are bad staff just as there are stroppy customers.
Not every person with a complaint is exagerating or concelaing some personal bad behaviour.

The man was just an arse who was maybe having a bd day. he made a simple issue very complicated and stressful for no good reason other than wankerage.

Anon,

There are certain flights combined with a certain passenger profile in which it might be reasonable to search children. An easyjet tourist flight to Granada...I think not. It is a silly power trip for some people, or part of a ridiculous ill thought out procedure.

If you ever need to search a child, surely the parents permission has to be given. I cannot believe a parent would ever give permission for physical restraint.

llarrygrylls, have you not been readong the swathes of print and info about taking liquids, incl baby milk thorugh security? You needed to have prepared in advance for prescription formula. And of course they search babies.

Look, families travelling with children do not have some sort of cuddly total exclusion zone through which the nasty world of security should not penetrate. It's for your benefit, too.

ooh, yes, those easily stereotyped ones.

And at security, they don't know what flight you are on.

I feel for your friend and her son but there isn't the space or the time (where are these 'quiet areas' to take upset children to?)for airport security to treat anyone with kid gloves. Our neighbour works in Newcastle airport security and he says people hide all sorts on their children to get through customs and security. Of course it was upsetting but they have a job to do and cannot be held responsible for an "unpredictable" child's outburst. I don't suppose it was pleasant for them either.

'If she is American she will know that US security treat foreigners like shit also.'

They treat their own countryfolk like that, too.

It's no excuse for what happened to this lady at Gatwick.

I don't fly through London anymore and avoid certain airports in the US and Canada who are known for their heavy-handedness.

But I'd rather fly through all of them and stop and change planes than ever fly through Mexico City again.

They really manhandle you there!

Blu,

Did you read what the chief executive of BAA said the other day? Most of the enhanced security is done at the behest of the U.S and is over and above what they apply on some of their own internal flights.

I am not expecting a "cuddly TEZ" but some common sense. White middle age couples do not use babies as suicide bombs. Never have, unlikely they ever will. By the way, where on earth would you conceal sufficient explosive on an 11 month old baby?

anonandlikeit - I have been searched enough times going through and know the difference. How would you like it if a woman put her hands down inbetween your butt checks and then placed three fingers up into your vagina area (I was wearing trousers)? That is what this woman did to me and I felt violated.

In response to your comment about my bag. The bag was lifted about 2' to 3' above the table (above their shoulders), turned upside down and everything was shaken out. They never once said 'excuse me' etc etc. After they threw everything out of my bag they just looked over it and said 'your done'.

larry, i don't think explosives are the only thing tht is searched for. (concealed weapons/drugs etc)

pag,my comments were directed at the OP's example.I was not commenting on your scenario.

booyoo...yes have removed items of clothing from those not cooperating and been assaulted whilst doing so. Have also found syringes concealed in nappies, cocaine and heroin concealed in changing bags, pushchairs and one particular pleasure (not) was discovering a razor blade hidden between a used sanitary towel and knickers.

Not suggesting for a minute that the OP was doing anything like that but some people do.

And yet if she'd gone through Gatwick security the next day instead they probably wouldn't even have bothered making you take off shoes. The level of security you get seems to depend on whether Mars is in the ascendant. Not that it in any way would excuse their behaviour but you wouldn't even mind if the procedures were standardised wherever you went.

'White middle age couples do not use babies as suicide bombs. Never have, unlikely they ever will. By the way, where on earth would you conceal sufficient explosive on an 11 month old baby?'

But brown, Muslim-looking ones do, so let's just manhandle all them?

You can conceal bombs in a baby's nappy if you wanted to, or in its clothes.

This lady may have been targetted for search because of a) being Muslim b) living in the Middle East.

No excuse for restraining a child like that.

Wasn't it the CE of RyanAir complaining about over-zealous security?
There might be a conflict of interest there, which ever one it was, and they are there to run an airline, not protect the security of the country.

I'm not saying there isn't overkill and over-reaction - the friend of the OP proves that.

But there are obvious difficulties by searching-by-profile: it tells those with bad intent who to employ as smugglers etc, it precludes all sorts of other things people may well carry - like drugs, and it assumes that security only attempts to screen against one category / ethnicity of terrorist. How many IRA or ETA members look like scary bearded muslims in full niqabs or whatever the searchable demograpic should be?

Expat,

Nope, let's not manhandle anyone. However, passenger profiling is the only thing that works and causes minimal inconvenience. Ask El Al.

Searching children should always be handled sensitively. I really doubt it is legal to restrain a child. I am sure you could say we need to search your child or you cannot go through. Then it would be up to the parent to calm the child down sufficiently to be searched, or miss the flight.

You could get far more explosive in a nappy than in (say) a shoe!

I have NO problem with my children being searched (or me for that matter) but as someone said further down, it's all about how it's done isn't it?

If it's done with a smile and an attempt to smooth the process for everyone then you feel better about it.

I'm sure there are lots of arses out there among passengers too. I've always smiled and been nice to the security people and tried not to be whiny if I get the short straw and get pulled out - I'd hope that if I had a child with particular needs they might return the courtesy one day by being understanding in return.

(Have to say, Supermum's list sounds pretty normal to me! Having a pat down and being left to repack your own bag is rather different to a child being pinned to the floor by 4 adults)

I'd rather just go through a body scanner. We went through them at Amsterdam and it was so much smoother.

I have flown in and out of US airports for the past 10 years and have never had a bad experience. When you enter the US you stand behind the line until you are next and then you stand next to the immigration officer. Coming into the UK you go through the same line if you are EU passport holders. As a married couple travelling together I don't see the issue with us going through the EU passport line together.

I have never had a problem going through the searches here in the US. I have beeped before and they use a paddle to find out what beeped and then you through a second scanner. Last week I went though the new scanners which take a look at you naked. I don't have a problem with that.

I am very resonable person and I understand the need for security. It's only in the UK that I have had complaints. Nowhere else in Europe, the US, Canada, the Far East or South America has there been a need to complain.

forgot to say - DH and I are both EU passport holders which is why we went through the EU passport holder line.

I don't have a problem with the scanners, either. They're probably more effective than handsearches, too, as they can see if a person has ingested parcels of drugs, too.

Mandatory searches for all is not at the discretion of the security officer on duty it is as prescribed in the procedures laid out dependant on the national threat level of the day.
All passengers are screened equally, yes I agree there are some that are better at their job and have better people skills but they should ALL be searching everybody, with some being selected for more thorough screening.

Want2b, Obviously you knwo what you felt & if you felt violated then that perhaps neds lookign at & it is possible to carry out thorough searches without being fully invasive. ANy cavity searches should be carried out in a seperate palce & way all together.
As for the baggage search person not excusing their actions, well it isn ussual for the officer to apologise for carying out a search.