AMA from a deer stalker on countryside management and wildlife

[TooManyAnimals94]

I've been stalking for almost 18 months now. I got into it through my partner who is an experienced stalker of 10 yrs and has several permissions through farmers and landowners to manage deer populations.

I think there are a lot of misconceptions about methods of managing the countryside and the people who do it so I am here to dispel some myths and hopefully have an honest conversation.

My thread is also prompted by the sad case of the stag that was shot in Richmond park after injuring a picnicker. It's a really horrible example of what happens when people don't respect wild animals for what they are.

It's between £1 and £2 per kilo depending on species and carcass quality. So for example a heart shot roe might be £1.30 but the price would go up on the same animal for a head shot.

Sorry about your car!

I've been in a lot of online arguments with people who hunt on horseback. In spite of the fact that I tell them I lived where red deer are regularly shot, they insist that chasing a stag with hounds is the only safe way to kill it. Strangely that doesn't seem to apply to the females.

What's your attitude to hunting deer with hounds and horse riders?

It's definitely not the only safe way but I suppose what they mean is hounds don't make mistakes. Once the stag is brought down, it's definitely going to die but there is always room for human error with a rifle.

I think where the deer numbers are now so high, hunting with hounds is not really an effective way to cull the population, but like fox hunting , it's not about killing huge numbers but distributing the population.

Hunting with hounds is another hugely misunderstood debate. It relies on survival of the fittest so in theory you end up with a healthier population distributed evenly around the countryside.

My view on it is some of these animals need to be culled so you have to find the safest, most humane way and that might vary depending on the situation.

Believed me I know all the fox hunting arguments and I have done it. It is imo an indefensible practice.

When they hunt deer the hounds only bring the stag to bay, it is still shot.

Anyway, back to culling deer. It's quite a skill what you do and a good death.

Thank you. My aim is always to make sure they know nothing about it and they go down with one shot.

Sorry I misunderstood the point about stag hunting. It's not very common in my area of England and I don't think it was before the ban either.

A really interesting thread, thanks.

Same with the guys who used to cull the deer near me. They prided themselves on a one shot kill, dropping them on the spot. They don't even know they are in the rifle sights. It's better than any other death of any other animal that we kill for meat.

I love venison but I guess most of what I eat is farmed these days.

If you search for local deerstalkers on insta and Facebook, they would be able to point you in the right direction for reasonably priced venison.

We sell whole muntjac for £60 all nicely packaged and separated into cuts. And once the cull season gets going properly in November, we mince a lot of them as I think a lot of people find that easier to cook with.

Great thread!

Quite fitting as it’s the first thread that came up tonight whilst I’m sat in a field with a flask of tea and a rifle. Albeit this time waiting for the fox that nabbed half of my chickens last night.

I love deer stalking and similar to you had never done it or even thought about it before meeting my husband 10 years ago who has been shooting for a few decades.

It’s been a disaster waiting to happen at Richmond park. People just can’t help themselves.

i really hope you go on to get your firearms license and DSC1. The more responsible stalkers the merrier for sure! Plus bonus that they have now re-introduced the trained hunter element into DSC1.

Interesting thread.
I visited a deer park near Dumfries last year and was fascinated to learn about population management. Unfortunately I don't really like venison but I do feel it's the most free range and humane meat.

Read with interest, thank you. I’m taking in all the ‘good death’ and arguments for managing the deer population which I get. But is it a job you truly enjoy? Killing things? If I had to do it to survive, I would. But doing it by choice, wanting to do it? And enjoying it? It just seems like a job for weirdos, sorry. Like being a funeral director. Necessary but dark af. Like, just admit you enjoy the buzz of killing?

Hope you get your fox. They seem to have done VERY well this season - seeing them everywhere.

Back to basics: why does the population need to be culled? I wouldn’t have seen deers as pests (but I’m not a farmer so I’m sure they are - I just can’t work out how!)

Thanks. I hope so too. This time last year I saw the odd one or two, even when the pheasant poults started going down in surrounding areas it was quiet but this year they are so brazen and I’ve seen loads…..typically though, not tonight! Deer are out in force though so something to watch in the thermal.

I dont tend to shoot many foxes, we don’t have livestock and they aren’t usually an issue but this one killed my favourite old girl so it’s card is marked.

I probably am weird then because I can see the appeal of being a funeral director. You have the responsibility of making sure a family say goodbye to a loved one- something very satisfying and beautiful in that.

There is a buzz but it's not what most people think. It's the excitement of selecting an animal, knowing you have outsmarted it and making sure it meets its end without a care in the world. So much more to it than killing.

It's not something I have to do but it is a privilege I am very grateful for.

They eat tree saplings and crops so are a problem in food production. They have no natural predators so if not culled, the herds become large and inbred leading to a less healthy population overall.
Good deer management involves allowing the best bucks to mature and breed, whilst culling the weaker specemins.

Also Muntjac, CWD, Fallow and Sika are all introduced species and have no real natural place in the ecosystem. Muntjac are particularly destructive as they are small and enjoy getting into gardens, plus harder to see when driving a car - they have caused a lot of accidents!

They eat young trees and stop them growing, so they are a menace to anyone trying to increase forests. We pay land owners to plant trees to mitigate climate change. They can jump the most enormous fences from a standstill so if numbers get so high they start going for plantations then they really have to be culled.

I drew my curtains one morning to see 30 red deer on my field. It was a magnificent sight but my neighbours needed their grass to grow on their lambs to feed people. They did cull, but only small numbers, the deer were still plentiful.

I asked the man who was shooting my horse this once. He said it was his privilege to give an animal a good clean death. He was a lovely man.

The lack of rain. Big mature trees, not saplings.

I've never met a bad knacker man yet and I've had all my old horses shot rather than the injection.

They manage to get the balance just right of giving enough time to say goodbye but also not letting it drag on and get too upsetting.

As a BASC member (working gundogs) I'm thrilled to read this thread. Thank you so much.

I love this! Flask of tea and a rifle, brilliant

As one who has fished, stalked deer, shot (both for the pot and for pest/predator control), and ferreted rabbits all my life, I have to say that this is one of the most refreshing and balanced threads that I have ever read on MN, both from the OP and those who have responded or commented. Brilliant!

I'm pleasantly surprised by how many replies I've had from knowledgeable, curious people! It's lovely.

I was fully prepared to don my hard hat and be accused of killing Bambi!

@Hedgesfullofbirds I love ferrets! Would be so interesting to work them.