I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness AMA

[ElloElloElloWhatsAllThisThen]

Fire away! I’m not the most knowledgeable but will try and answer all questions to the best of my ability

I feel that's a bit unfair. Yes it's ask u anything but if what ur answering isn't general practice and someone explains that , I don't think they should just let u say what u think it is without any discussion. That's just shutting down anything u don't like. Basically controlling the information which isn't what mumsnet is about. As it is a discussion board.

How do you maintain such equanimity and courtesy when faced with some of the vitriol and snippity questions (dishwashers, horses) on this thread?

What’s your views on the child sexual abuse scandals, the evidence given at the ARC in Australia, the court cases and awards against the organisation in America , the involvement in the UK charity investigation and the adherence to the two witness rule for allegations?

Whats your views on the loss of the court case in Norway to get state aid as a religion due to the shunning policies which you state are the reason you didn’t get baptised?

What do you think of changes to tenet and policy like the “overlapping generation” and the new rules that women can wear trousers and men can have facial hair?

And how do you personally square not thinking it’s a cult with admitting you are scared of being shunned? Also you’re wrong about uni. You would be “marked”, there would probably be a local needs talk and you and your parents wouldn’t be allowed privileges in the congregation.

It’s not unfair at all. I don’t appreciate being told that I’m still ‘apart of a cult’ by a poster and then they proceed to carry on hijacking a thread. Yes, this is a discussion forum but if you have so much to say, why not start your own thread?

I’m not shutting down anything I don’t like. I’m shutting down a poster who’s been rude to me as if I’ve insulted them personally. There’s a difference. I’ll go back to the questions now

It didn’t impact me at all hence why I didn’t understand the question ‘how did you cope with this?’ I never listened a Nicki Minaj song and thought, ‘omg I shouldn’t be listening to this. I’m sinful and I’m going to die.’

Again, JWs believe that all sins (well almost all) can be forgiven so I never thought I’d die for doing something like listening to music. Boogie Wonderland came out when my mum was 2 years old. I can see why we have completely different experiences

I think it’s one of those things where some people don’t know what to do. They don’t know if they should pass a card around the office whilst a JW is present as they probably don’t want to risk offending someone. It’s probably a case of ‘better safe than sorry’ if you know what I mean.

I honestly can’t see why someone would be offended that a card (that they don’t have to sign) is being passed around. There probably are some that do get offended.

If someone in a shop says ‘happy Christmas’ some may just say thank you and keep it at that. It’s merely a stranger trying to be polite. Some may take it as a chance to speak about the religion etc. I personally don’t think someone saying happy Christmas should offend a JW. Same with asking when their birthday is

There’s no consequences for being a homeowner but again, it’s something that’s discouraged. If you believe the world is going to end soon and we’re all currently living in ‘Satan’s system,’ why would you want to own a property? It’s something that’s seen to be a contradiction.

I know many JWs that own their own property though. It’s a bit like being in a marriage with a non believer. It’s discouraged but there isn’t any consequences for doing so

I think personally any organisation I'm part of that would find that behaviour to be acceptable wouldn't be something I would be ok with

It’s quite clear that you haven’t read any of my posts as you’d see my reasonings for NOT getting baptised. I don’t agree with the whole disfellowship thing. I have never and don’t think I ever will. I’ve seen in break up families (mine included) so I don’t know exactly what it is you want me to say in response to your first post.

Again, I’ve said this in a few posts but I’ll repeat it. Let’s say every member of a family are JWs. One member gets disfellowshipped. The rules on this are always changing but from what I remember, you shouldn’t actively communicate with that person. Let’s say that person lives in your house. It’s unreasonable to say that you can’t speak to someone who lives with you. You can of course speak but you can’t speak about anything that has to do with the religion. So you can’t speak about what’s happened at the meeting or how your day’s been at ministry. If your friends (and not family) with the person who’s been disfellowshipped, you cannot talk to them at all. The rules have only changed in recent months when you can now greet a person that’s been disfellowshipped but that’s all.

There is also a kind of a grey area and some people interpret it differently. Let’s say the family member that’s been disfellowshipped doesn’t live with you. Some will make a conscious effort to not speak to that person at all. Some may distance themself from that person or some will keep in frequent contact. Most JWs will not speak to the family member at all and will only speak to them if they have too (for example if there’s a family emergency or something like that).

Imagine you grow up in a religion/congregation and most of your friends are from there. If you get disfellowshipped, you lose all of those friends unless you decide to be reinstated and come back. Depending on how your family views the ‘grey area’ of rules, you may lose all your family too. Why wouldn’t people be scared of losing everyone in their life? I know I would hence why it’s another reason why I didn’t decide to get baptised.

There are millions of JWs around the world. There are millions (if not billions) of people who are apart of a certain religion. You can hear experiences from those that have positive or negative experiences. That doesn’t mean that those experiences speak for the whole of the religion. It’s definitely good to speak to JWs that you come across (in work, parents of school children etc) and see what their own personal experiences are

I bitch about it on Reddit😆

I cannot believe you’ve just asked for my views on child sexual abuse scandals. If there was a block button on here, I would have clicked on it so quickly. You must think I’m utter scum to ask me a question like that. Please 🖕off

I don't recall saying u are part of a cult. I do recall saying that you are not a jw and therefore should not be offended by any remarks by anyone saying something mean about a mean cult.
I was once a member of the JW cult. I would not be upset by anyone insulting it.
There has been no intent on my part to be rude to you OP.

You said AMA - I take it you didn’t mean it then.

As you’ve spent the last few hours being an apologist for this cult and trying to take down anyone like Horrace who challenges you no I wont fuck off. And I asked your views around how the organisation manages child sexual abuse which is no reason for your faux horror.

Youre spreading misinformation and that’s potentially dangerous to people who are vulnerable. I see you. You can dislike it all you want. It’s a cult following a high control extremely psychologically damaging mindset led by a small group of mainly white (one token not) American men. Theres also some interesting questions around the financial model. However my main pint is the damage it causes to people and relationships.

if anyone is in doubt please google the BITE model of authoritarian control and consider how it aligns. It seriously dictates everything from who your friends should be to whether you can have a beard as a man. And there are many subtle consequences for many of the things you claim there isn’t.

You’ve also ignored all my other questions. That’s fine. I get how it works. I wish you well.

I paraphrased, what you actually said was, ‘Okay, OP may well be an ex JW so to speak. But she is still very much in a JW cult mindset.’ Not quite sure why I’m still going back and forth with you. Stay on the thread, don’t stay on the thread. It’s the internet, I can’t control what grown adults do

Why would I answer any of your questions when you’ve asked me what my views are on child sexual abuse scandals? In what world am I going to say ‘I don’t believe a word of it. No one that’s a JW would ever abuse a child. They’re all lying and it’s not true.’ Why the fuck would I ever discredit someone that’s suffered CSA. I am a CSA survivor so again, you can fuck off.

’I’m spreading misinformation’ and you see me. No mate, I’m answering questions based on MY experience. Last time I checked, you aren’t ElloElloElloWhatsAllThisThen and you don’t speak for me. People can read the thread, ask questions and do their own research if they wish. I’ve already linked the exjw thread on Reddit if people want to have a read. I genuinely didn’t think this thread would even get offensive but you’re talking to me as if I’m Hitler. Go do one

I don't think we can ignore the very obvious red flags that a church did/could be doing an abusive practice like u said everyone is effectively stuck in it through fear of potentially having family and friends and everything they have ever known taken away. Is that really something good or is that abusive?

I mean the church is telling people they are shunned or they r not when disfellowshipped. ! If u could have everything taken away from u I would suggest then u do get shunned regardless weather the church declears that now. I'm guessing being abusive was rightly looked down apon and they felthey better do better pr

The person saying ur in a cult is problematic as noone chooses to be in a cult and only anyone who is an ex members of a cult knows that it was. But if ur stuck in something and u can't leave isn't that what people say is how u know ur in a cult , try to leave? And if its difficult u could be. I'm not saying u r in a cult I'm just explaining what is said about when someone is in one.

Again, my question was around how the organisation handles the allegations. It’s a perfectly legitimate question.

Youre spreading misinformation. There are consequences for many of the things you say there aren’t. There are rules you say don’t exist. Theres are for example consequences for marrying a nonbeliever as a JW. You would not be regarded as of good standing, and that brings consequences. There are a small elite group of American men claiming to be the voice of god (although only when it suits them) and telling those within the religion NOT to research or read anything except their own literature.

I won’t be wound up by you but you won’t silence me with a tantrum either.

That's really interesting. If you don't own a property you rely on another means (private or social renting perhaps), which I guess would also be part of the worldly system so either way you are in it! Thank you for answering my question

So the 144,000 will be in heaven but Jesus' kingdom will be on Earth (the new heaven and new Earth mentioned at the end of Revelation)?.
I grew up in a similar religious group but we didn't have the belief about the 144k.
Thank you.

I’ll try and respond but there is a lot of your post that I can’t quite understand due to the way it’s been written.

I genuinely cannot speak for millions of people. It’s impossible for me to do so. I don’t believe that everyone is stuck in the religion through fear as people leave and get disfellowshipped every single day. This isn’t something that’s suddenly sprung upon you and you’re trapped. Before people get baptised, they’re aware of disfellowshipping and the majority agree with it and why it’s in place.

It’s not like you get disfellowshipped and can never come back. I have a friend that’s been disfellowshipped 3 times. He may as well just leave because I don’t see the point of coming and going three times but it’s his life. Not everyone get disfellowshipped as I said in one of my posts. The person that I had a Bible Study with had sex outside of marriage which is considered a sin. Did she get disfellowshipped. No. She was reproved which is what happens when you’ve made a mistake, commited a sin but have informed the elders of the congregation and are apologetic about what you did.

A wife of an elder within the congregation I was in, was smoking in secret. Smoking is also considered a sin but she went to the elders for help which meant that she got reproved. Some of her responsibilities were taken from her temporarily (like answering up in the meeting) and that’s it. It’s not you commit one mistake, you’re disfellowshipped immediately and you can never come back. I still don’t agree with the whole concept anyway

Exactly! Either way you look at it, you’re in the ‘system’ and have to live somewhere regardless. I think that’s why some have an attitude of ‘well I’m here now, may aswell own a home, get a degree and have a good life whether it’s going to be temporary or not.’

There are other people like my grandma who are the complete opposite and will live a minimal life as they don’t see the point in excelling through life. Which I think is sad tbh

That’s exactly what the belief is, yeah. When I was like 6/7, I wanted to be anointed so badly and I remember feeling sad when my mum said that would basically never happen!

In regards to the religion that you grew up in, was the belief that everyone would go to heaven?

Are there any allowances made for physically or mentally infirm JW members when it comes to going around evangelising?

At one of my old workplaces, a nice, rather frail elderly lady would come in and give us Watchtower magazines without comment (she was coming to use our services anyway) and we'd always thank her - my boss said the lady had to be able to tell her church that she'd given them to someone and us taking them would save the lady another trip.

What do you think is the most "WTF, lol" rule/belief - outdated or current - that the church had/has? Doesn't have to be outrageous, could just be a bit pointless.

Did you or any of your family/friends get bad reactions when you would tell people you were JW?

Have you heard any myths or stereotypes attributed to JWs?

I'm sorry if my post isn't clear I'm dyslexic.

I don't belive every thinks they r stuck either. I think I know why ur friend keeps coming back. If a child has been taught a religion their whole life. (And I obviously dont know if this person was a child when joined) They spend a lot of time taking part in that religion. It impacts all their life. Then it's very difficult to break away from that. It's like the thinking is ingrained. And they cannot just forget that. If it's all they have ever known then it's not a surprise they keep coming back. I know u said u wasn't baptised but u seem like it is very much a part of u ? and the thinking is ingrained with u too which is totally understandable.
Also mentioning the ingrained thinking. When u r baptised I'm assuming as ur becoming more ingrained in the thinking, u probably belive u will never need to be disfellowshipped or leave as why would u have joined in first place. So I don't nessasery think knowing about potential shunning or disfellowship before baptised makes it less worse.

Thank you for answering my question OP. I appreciate your insight.

From what I'm reading here the system seems set up to bind people up in rules and obligation. It's hard in this day and age to see how it frees people up to fulfil their potential, have open minds and be happy. I guess like many religions it's about sin, shame, fear, oppression and the promise of a paradise after this life. Men seem to have the upper hand generally. I can see why it wasn't for you and it certainly wouldn't be for me.

Also, it seems a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses only get through it by not admitting their true selves and feelings to others and by bending the rules. It's a shame people have to live like that.

The threat of being divided from family if you don't conform is very cruel. People must suffer real anxiety about being separated from their loved ones in a way that must have lasting negative impact.