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AMA

I’m a Magistrate - AMA

96 replies

BettyCallMeAl · 05/01/2024 09:01

I’m a magistrate, and since a few people at work have asked me about it, I thought I’d do an AMA in case others have questions.

I am a Presiding Justice in adult criminal courts, holding trials and sentencing across the whole range of cases from theft to drugs, assault, domestic violence, criminal damage, sexual offences, traffic etc (96% of all criminal offence are dealt with by Magistrates - only the most serious are not). I also adjudicate on search warrants for drugs / immigration, various other things.

If you want to know more about what we do, what works well / doesn’t, ask away. Or if you might want to become a magistrate, are due to appear in court as a defendant / witness, and want to know how it all works, I am here.

(so long as you address me as Your Worship and take your hands out of your pockets) 😊

OP posts:
JustanotherJP · 02/03/2024 12:24

I have just seen this thread. I am also a presiding justice in the adult criminal court and a winger in the youth court.

i would agree with most of the OP’s points with the exception of a few.

In our court, it is rare that we go outside of sentencing guidelines and if we do, we really have to justify why we have done so.

We work very closely with the legal advisers, that working partnership is essential. As a presiding justice it is vital that I have the respect of the LA and vice versa.

As far as security goes in court, we as a bench have been called all sorts of names and had unpleasant things shouted at us. Once there were a lot of police hanging around court including the back areas. We were only told later than a defendant had made specific threats against us. They thankfully came to nothing.

We do have a panic button under the bench that should result in security rushing to us. On the test days I have experienced, it seems to work although not sure if it would be quite quick enough in a real threat situation.

I use my maiden name in court and usually sit about 45 mins away from where I live. I think I may have seen someone outside of court but was not fully sure. It was rather awkward though as it was in pizza express and he was in my line of sight.

I did once sit in a closer court to home for youth court (but not my area due to county boundaries) and the first case was due to be someone that I knew my son had called 999 about as he had witnessed her assault someone. I just said I knew of the defendant and sat out of the case. We do carefully check the list of names due to be in court and sit out of any that we may know.

Magistrates can either be family court only or adult court and either add on youth or family. In our area you cannot do family and youth, it is one or the other. And you cannot join the youth panel until you have sat in adult criminal court for two years whereas you can go straight into family. This has only come about in the last five or so years as they are desperate for family magistrates.

A question was raised about fines and income. Yes income is very much taken into account. Fines are in bands so a Band A fine is equivalent to half a week’s income, a Band B is one week income and a band C is 1.5 weeks income. There is a minimum weekly income figure of £120 and if there is no detail on income then an average figure of £440 is used.

PegasusReturns · 02/03/2024 12:48

It was very unsettling and I felt the magistrate basically didn't have a clue

Does this happen often?

as a barrister I would say yes it absolutely does, although caveat it’s many years since I was in the mags regularly.

A lay bench relies heavily on their legal advisor and I have experienced a number of occasions where the legal advisor has had to make a call and the bench have been bewildered and at least two where they’ve been dismissive of their legal advisor.

appeals on convictions and sentences happen. I have never lost an appeal against a conviction in the mags - i think the general success rate is about 40%.

W0rri3d · 02/03/2024 22:49

My boyfriend is due up to see magistrates. Neither of us really know what it means.
He said it is a hearing at the moment... so not a full blown court case?

He is autistic. He had an appropriate adult during his police interview... would he get an appropriate adult in court too? I know he would not cope at all.

PegasusReturns · 03/03/2024 01:36

@W0rri3d depending on offence he should take legal representation. He may also be able to have an “appropriate companion”. This is different to an appropriate adult

if you post on the legal board with some more detail people will offer more advice.

JustanotherJP · 03/03/2024 14:53

It was very unsettling and I felt the magistrate basically didn't have a clue

Does this happen often?

@PegasusReturns I think it’s disingenuous to say this happens often when you haven’t been in magistrates court regularly for many years. Having been a magistrate for around ten years I have noticed that the professionalism has only increased over that time. When I started there was the odd person who may not have been ideal in the role but these have left or been managed out. I strongly feel that it is run in a professional manner.

@W0rri3d your boyfriend may be able to have an intermediary in court. These are specialised trained people who can help him communicate in court and set ground rules for the trial if there is to be one.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmcts-intermediary-services

HMCTS intermediary services

How to access intermediary services if you need communication support at a court or tribunal hearing.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmcts-intermediary-services

PegasusReturns · 03/03/2024 15:43

@JustanotherJP it would be disingenuous if I hadn’t admitted I hadn’t been in the mags regularly for many years, but since I did it’s difficult to see how you came to that conclusion 🤷‍♀️

I don’t disagree there has likely been improvement, but my general experience both direct and indirect is not an outlier amongst both senior and junior members of the bar, including those who continue to appear in the mags regularly.

that’s not a reflection on your desire for professionalism - I am glad their are people who want to infuse the work with honesty and take the role seriously, but overall the mags system metes out amateur justice.

diian · 03/03/2024 16:37

How much diversity is there on an average bench? Do you ever sit with magistrates who have a disability, under 30 or from a non-managerial background?

After watching Channel 4's The Jury, how long are your debates about the cases in the magistrates court? Have you ever sat on a jury in a Crown Court? If you have not got a legal background, do you feel like your training has equipped you well to make these life changing verdicts?

Should magistrates be paid?

So many questions! Thank you for this AMA.

diian · 08/03/2024 17:30

Sorry, it looks like my questions have killed this thread.

willtheypickme · 09/03/2024 10:03

@BettyCallMeAl
I have recently applied and I need to find the time to go to court to watching a couple of hearings.
But my worry now is the fact that I have got CCJs and wonder if they will ever taken me on and thinking perhaps I shouldn't even bother to waste my time going to through the process 🤦🏾‍♀️🙄

MysticTrayBake · 10/03/2024 19:51

This is really fascinating and it's something I would like to do in the future, maybe when the kids have left home. I've been reading The Justice of the Peace Blog, but I don't think he's an active magistrate. Are there any other websites or blogs you can recommend, so I can get a feeling for it?

JustanotherJP · 10/03/2024 19:56

there doesn’t seem to be an active blog going now. I remember liking this one when it was active. http://magistratesblog.blogspot.com/?m=1

A decent book is the Secret Magistrate. It’s a few years old again so technology has changed a lot but I remember thinking it was good when I read it.

The Secret Magistrate https://amzn.eu/d/dL0wVpx

The Magistrates' Blog

A well established blog by a serving magistrate

http://magistratesblog.blogspot.com/?m=1

MysticTrayBake · 10/03/2024 20:02

JustanotherJP · 10/03/2024 19:56

there doesn’t seem to be an active blog going now. I remember liking this one when it was active. http://magistratesblog.blogspot.com/?m=1

A decent book is the Secret Magistrate. It’s a few years old again so technology has changed a lot but I remember thinking it was good when I read it.

The Secret Magistrate https://amzn.eu/d/dL0wVpx

Oh no, Bystander has sadly passed away so that one is mothballed too. I did search in the Blogger toolbar and it threw up this one that seems to be active: https://magistrateslaw.blogspot.com/
Also the Magistrates Association seems like it has a lot of information, but not entirely sure what their role is: https://www.magistrates-association.org.uk/

JustanotherJP · 10/03/2024 23:22

@MysticTrayBake yes I know that blog but it seems to be more about the law itself rather than the day to day court stuff although obviously they are heavily linked!

The magistrates association (MA) is a membership body that magistrates can join for about £50ish a year. It doesn’t represent individual magistrates (as in it isn’t a union) but does campaign on certain issues and promote the magistracy as a whole. On our bench of about 100 it’s about 50/50 wplit who is a MA member or not.

BeAzureExpert · 10/03/2024 23:45

is it because of costs that we dont jail more people especially considering some of the crimes ? and why do some less serious offences carry more harsher punishments than more serious offences ect ? @BettyCallMeAl

NewWinger · 11/03/2024 11:17

diian · 03/03/2024 16:37

How much diversity is there on an average bench? Do you ever sit with magistrates who have a disability, under 30 or from a non-managerial background?

After watching Channel 4's The Jury, how long are your debates about the cases in the magistrates court? Have you ever sat on a jury in a Crown Court? If you have not got a legal background, do you feel like your training has equipped you well to make these life changing verdicts?

Should magistrates be paid?

So many questions! Thank you for this AMA.

Not sure your questions have been answered, so I’ll jump in - I’ve been sitting for just over two years now, so still quite new in the scheme of things.

Diversity will very much vary by area; the ideal is that the bench should reflect the area it serves, but I’m sure most skew more towards older and white - and probably male.

My area has very low levels of visible diversity, but the bench has a slightly broader mix than the area. The Magistrates’ Association has groups for young magistrates (18+), people of colour, people with disabilities and LGB+ people. The groups all operate individually but also work together. All magistrates are expected not just to operate without bias (we have unconscious bias training) but to challenge discriminatory language or behaviour if we encounter it.

Length of deliberation varies, but generally with a guilty plea will take no more than ten minutes. So, for example, with a guilty plea for drunk driving, unless the levels were extremely high, you’re generally considering the level of fine and length of disqualification. The Sentencing Guidelines will give a starting point and range, so it’s a matter of deciding (and majority agreeing) where the offence sits within the range. Also, you’ll have been thinking about where you feel the offence sits while listening to the prosecution and defence/defendant, which speeds up deliberations. With a trial/not guilty plea, it’s more of a piece of string.

You absolutely don’t need a legal or managerial background, and I’d argue that either could be a disadvantage - while the presiding justice effectively manages proceedings, it generally takes four years or more to become a PJ, and as a winger, it’s much more about teamwork. And a PJ should not try to manage deliberations, other than to ensure that everyone is heard, and that procedures are followed. As for legal knowledge, you’ll have your training and various resources, but most importantly, your Legal Advisor, who will guide you, and generally set out what your options are.

Should magistrates be paid? I would say no, but nor should they be out of pocket. We are paid expenses, which can include subsistence and (iirc) loss of earnings, so in theory, any costs or losses should be avoidable.

For anyone thinking about applying, I would say go for it. Go along to a convenient court and ask to sit in the public area - courts are public buildings, so you can go to any and be allowed in; court ushers are generally very helpful, if you explain why you are there, they should direct you to the best court for seeing a variety of cases, though it’s very much luck of the draw. I would recommend observing on at least two different days, travel light, and remember that phones need to be off on or silent mode.

Unicorn34 · 15/03/2024 15:20

If the jury found someone guilty of an offence but, due to lack of evidence or information, you didn't agree with their decision, would you be able to do anything about it or would you have to go with the outcome?

MysticTrayBake · 15/03/2024 15:25

Unicorn34 · 15/03/2024 15:20

If the jury found someone guilty of an offence but, due to lack of evidence or information, you didn't agree with their decision, would you be able to do anything about it or would you have to go with the outcome?

There's no jury at the Magistrates Court, is there?

MissConductUS · 15/03/2024 15:25

This is fascinating; thanks for the AMA. I'm an American, and we have nothing like this role in the US. Judges are all attorneys in a paid full time position and citizens are selected at random for jury duty.

NewWinger · 15/03/2024 16:24

Unicorn34 · 15/03/2024 15:20

If the jury found someone guilty of an offence but, due to lack of evidence or information, you didn't agree with their decision, would you be able to do anything about it or would you have to go with the outcome?

@MysticTrayBake is right, there’s no jury in magistrates’ court. The bench is three magistrates (two if absolutely unavoidable), and it can be a majority or unanimous decision - though it is never disclosed in open court whether the decision is unanimous or not. The bench has a presiding justice, and if the decision is 2-1, with the PJ being the one, majority still rules, the PJ cannot overrule the two who disagree with them.

Unicorn34 · 15/03/2024 17:01

NewWinger · 15/03/2024 16:24

@MysticTrayBake is right, there’s no jury in magistrates’ court. The bench is three magistrates (two if absolutely unavoidable), and it can be a majority or unanimous decision - though it is never disclosed in open court whether the decision is unanimous or not. The bench has a presiding justice, and if the decision is 2-1, with the PJ being the one, majority still rules, the PJ cannot overrule the two who disagree with them.

Thank you for the info - my "friend" who was wrongly sentenced must have been in Crown Court then.

W0rri3d · 22/03/2024 21:50

Thank you for your replies.
My BF had his hearing and is now due to see a probation officer for a PSR.
I stayed all day, and watched many cases, and the magistrates basically gave the same result for everyone. Even a guy who posted a rant on FB.. he is out on bail and also due to have a PSR and go back for sentencing.
It felt like they were either very harsh in general, or having a bad day.

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