I'm a Probation Officer- ask me anything

[webster1987]

I feel like the role of a probation officer is often misunderstood and we don't get much exposure (good anyway!) in news/TV so...ask me anything!

[MiraculousLadyK]

Ex probation officer here… but still painfully and deeply invested in the service.

What’re your thoughts on the current rehabilitative work available for female offenders? Have things improved at all in terms of available services and RAR work, you know, the one CRS provider for women versus the five for men and that sort of lark.

To be honest after all the talk of doing collages and cutting up chocolate bars in the name of a so called therapeutic approach I threw the towel in and scurried off to a police role 😁 I’d be interested to know what things are like a couple of years on.

[webster1987]

@MiraculousLadyK

Ex probation officer here… but still painfully and deeply invested in the service.

What’re your thoughts on the current rehabilitative work available for female offenders? Have things improved at all in terms of available services and RAR work, you know, the one CRS provider for women versus the five for men and that sort of lark.

To be honest after all the talk of doing collages and cutting up chocolate bars in the name of a so called therapeutic approach I threw the towel in and scurried off to a police role 😁 I’d be interested to know what things are like a couple of years on.

Personally, I haven't seen much improvement in services for women nationally. We do have a team that works solely with women and the POs/PSOs do a lot to tailor their work and set up groups etc 'in house'.

[webster1987]

@MiraculousLadyK

Ex probation officer here… but still painfully and deeply invested in the service.

What’re your thoughts on the current rehabilitative work available for female offenders? Have things improved at all in terms of available services and RAR work, you know, the one CRS provider for women versus the five for men and that sort of lark.

To be honest after all the talk of doing collages and cutting up chocolate bars in the name of a so called therapeutic approach I threw the towel in and scurried off to a police role 😁 I’d be interested to know what things are like a couple of years on.

How did you find the switch to Police? I often wonder how our probation approach translates to the Police service

[Mischance]

@webster1987

I'm sorry that services have let him down. I couldn't agree more with the PP though. We are often the only agency that is duty bound to work with that person, and as they say, numerous agencies will pass the buck. We are fundamentally there to manage risk in accordance with the licence conditions. A recall decision is not taken lightly and should always be the last resort.

Adult social care/local authority seem very much to be the agency that should be supporting him, in conjunction with Probation.

And herein lies the problem - buck-passing back and forth, which went on throughout his whole childhood. Probation said he should be supported by LA SSD when he was on licence; LA SSD said it should be probation - so neither did anything - so back to prison he goes.

[Hawkins009]

@webster1987

Are some people born to rebel against Society's rules and laws,

Or is it opportunity and or situational

Or are some just destined to be the figuratively "bad apples" ?

[Hawkins009]

The basis for my questions are inspired by this book

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=the%20lucifer%20effect&amp%3Badgrpid=52126854894&amp%3Bhvadid=606276742024&amp%3Bhvdev=m&amp%3Bhvlocphy=1006888&amp%3Bhvnetw=g&amp%3Bhvqmt=e&amp%3Bhvrand=13676132722457992504&amp%3Bhvtargid=kwd-297789739396&amp%3Bhydadcr=21639_2291916&amp%3Btag=hydrukspg-21&amp%3Bref=pd_sl_3zw57jk0al_e&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[StBrides]

Great ama,thank you.

What are the resources that you would ideally have and the steps that would ideally be in place to properly support people and help them rehabilitate/turn their lives around?

We often hear about the damage lack of services do and most of the public have a good idea of what's missing when it comes to the NHS or even social services, but not many of us have insight into what offenders / ex offenders need and I think its really important that we do.

[JustanotherJP]

What do you think of magistrates?

[allthedramamick]

What a stroke of luck! I was going to make my own thread asking this but as you're here 🙃

My DDs dad was released halfway through a 7yr sentence last summer. He has bipolar but he was having supervised contact with DD and all was okish until this May, when he became very delusional & abusive.

He was arrested and subsequently sectioned, then sent to prison. Due to his allegations against me, social services had to do an assessment & the social worker was getting quite a lot of info from his probation officer, which she passed onto me. At this time, SS & the police said that recall was a virtual certainty. I was told that he'd also been missing his probation meetings and required mental health reviews.

My 8yo DD has a neurological condition & is v mentally vulnerable, so this all took its toll. She blamed herself (and me) and was suicidal due to it. School is particularly hard for her, so me & her therapist decided it was best to wait for the holidays to tell her that her dad was back in prison. I also didn't want to do this until I had concrete info re how long he will be in there, so I'm able to answer her questions.

But now, it all seems much less clear. Social services closed the case so I can't get info from them, and the police said yesterday that probation are unable to tell them when the parole hearing will be, or if there will even be one.

Not really sure what to do. Would probation talk to me? I am the victim of the latest offence (hence the police's updates) and there is certainly risk if he's let out without me knowing, but my main concern is having the information to tell my DD at a time which will cause the least distress.

Would massively appreciate any advice you can give!

[webster1987]

@Hawkins009

@webster1987

Are some people born to rebel against Society's rules and laws,

Or is it opportunity and or situational

Or are some just destined to be the figuratively "bad apples" ?

Are some people born to rebel against Society's rules and laws,

Or is it opportunity and or situational

Or are some just destined to be the figuratively "bad apples" ?

Never heard of the book before, looks interesting!

I think the vast majority of people I have worked with over the last 12 years have suffered all sorts of trauma, abuse, neglect and disadvantages. Rarely do I see someone who has had a seemingly 'normal' (whatever that is!) childhood who have gone on to commit serious offences. It doesn't excuse what they've done but it offers some explanation.

There are of course predisposing factors, such as mental health, and personality disorder but again, often triggered by situational factors.

Excluding some offences, I personally think we all have the capacity to commit some offences depending of circumstances and external factors.

[Hawkins009]

@webster1987
Much appreciated for your perspective, it's a good book, originally when at school it was usually good and bad people, then when I did psychology that they taught us that it's a mix of different perspectives.

[webster1987]

@StBrides

Great ama,thank you.

What are the resources that you would ideally have and the steps that would ideally be in place to properly support people and help them rehabilitate/turn their lives around?

We often hear about the damage lack of services do and most of the public have a good idea of what's missing when it comes to the NHS or even social services, but not many of us have insight into what offenders / ex offenders need and I think its really important that we do.

Unfortunately it's not a popular topic for discussion as generally the public want punishment. I do completely get why, as not doing so would seem to be unjust for the victims. However, to truly support people in changing their lives and therein prevent further offending/victims, the system needs a complete overhaul, starting very much from social services and the support offered to families/children. If we can prevent trauma/abuse/family difficulties earlier on, there would be a significant impact on those children growing up and ending up on our books!

In an ideal world, there would be a huge cash injection and a more psychologically informed approach. There are some prisons that work in this way (therapeutic communities) and in my opinion, we need a huge amount more like that. Locking people in a cell for 23 hours a day only serves to exclude people already from a society they already feel excluded from.

There needs to be a more robust multi agency management system, more housing support/and how to actually live independently, systems in place to support gang members to start a new life and ultimately a change in how we as a society view rehabilitation. The general consensus is lock them up forever, which doesn't solve anything but increase the need for more prisons!

[Greenshake]

@webster1987 hear hear! I would add another thing to the wish list - a general public who are more reasonable / have some expectation management about punishment / rehabilitation.

[Hawkins009]

One thing I think would help is the elimination of all this glamorising over various criminals the various TV and films and different criminal activities eg games like gta series etc.

Yes most will say it's only TV and games etc, but if we want to change society then why is glamourousing of crime even needed.

[webster1987]

@allthedramamick

What a stroke of luck! I was going to make my own thread asking this but as you're here 🙃

My DDs dad was released halfway through a 7yr sentence last summer. He has bipolar but he was having supervised contact with DD and all was okish until this May, when he became very delusional & abusive.

He was arrested and subsequently sectioned, then sent to prison. Due to his allegations against me, social services had to do an assessment & the social worker was getting quite a lot of info from his probation officer, which she passed onto me. At this time, SS & the police said that recall was a virtual certainty. I was told that he'd also been missing his probation meetings and required mental health reviews.

My 8yo DD has a neurological condition & is v mentally vulnerable, so this all took its toll. She blamed herself (and me) and was suicidal due to it. School is particularly hard for her, so me & her therapist decided it was best to wait for the holidays to tell her that her dad was back in prison. I also didn't want to do this until I had concrete info re how long he will be in there, so I'm able to answer her questions.

But now, it all seems much less clear. Social services closed the case so I can't get info from them, and the police said yesterday that probation are unable to tell them when the parole hearing will be, or if there will even be one.

Not really sure what to do. Would probation talk to me? I am the victim of the latest offence (hence the police's updates) and there is certainly risk if he's let out without me knowing, but my main concern is having the information to tell my DD at a time which will cause the least distress.

Would massively appreciate any advice you can give!

I'm sorry, that sounds like a really difficult situation to navigate and I completely understand why you'd want to know that information.

It would probably help to firstly clarify the recall process. It sounds quite likely that he has been recalled on what is called a 'standard' recall, meaning that in theory, his release date will now show as the end of his licence/7 year sentence (so in 2.5 years time from what you've said). Any re-release prior to that point is subject to the Parole Board reviewing his case and deeming him suitable for release. This decision can be made 'on paper' meaning no actual parole hearing takes place but the parole board look at a dossier of his case, including a report from his probation officer, and can direct release or for him to remain in prison. The alternative is they direct the case to a hearing and hear all the evidence from the people involved in the case, including him/his solicitor. A decision is then made within 2 weeks of that hearing. If they direct release, this would only be with suitable accommodation and an appropriate plan in place to manage his risks. It's very possible Probation do not yet know what hearing will take place, and would depend on a few things. When was he recalled? And am I right in saying he's now being investigated for further offences where you are the victim? If so, the parole board are HIGHLY unlikely to release until these charges are concluded. Either by conviction or not guilty/charges are dropped. Until they know the outcome of that case, the argument being they can't fully assess the risk he poses.

If you are identified as at risk from him, which it sounds like you are, then I would very much encourage you to make contact with the probation officer. Part of the job is to put together a plan to manage risk upon any re-release and certain conditions can potentially be put in place to manage that risk, for example, a licence condition not to contact you. This would need to be discussed as obviously I don't know the details of his case/risks so would very much be dependent on that.

I would also be expecting a re-referral to social services upon any expected release by the probation officer, as they would need to be ensuring your daughter is safeguarded from any risks so I suspect that won't be the last involvement you have with them.

If he is convicted of offences against you, depending on the new sentence he receives (has to be over 12 months) you will be contacted by a victim liaison officer who would work with you and liaise with the probation worker so you are kept up to date with potential release and ways to safeguard you and your daughter.

I hope that helps!

[webster1987]

@Greenshake

@webster1987 hear hear! I would add another thing to the wish list - a general public who are more reasonable / have some expectation management about punishment / rehabilitation.

Absolutely.

Possibly a whole different thread but I would also want to see the legalisation of drugs. Not a popular opinion perhaps but one that makes a lot of sense in my view!

[BarelyLiterate]

The general consensus is lock them up forever, which doesn't solve anything

That’s not actually true, though, is it? Wayne Cozens will never abduct, rape & murder another woman because, quite rightly, he will die in prison. The whole life term given to him will solve the problem of the threat he will always represent to women.

[Greenshake]

@BarelyLiterate it is true in as much as this does nothing to tackle the root causes of these problems. On top of that, he will continue to present a risk to female prison officers/ staff.

[CattyCattle]

Do you yourself follow the law religiously and are you ever tempted to rebel yourself slightly?

[StBrides]

@webster1987

Absolutely.

Possibly a whole different thread but I would also want to see the legalisation of drugs. Not a popular opinion perhaps but one that makes a lot of sense in my view!

Interesting you should say that, I've come across many experienced police offers say the same. I'm very anti drugs, but I would support legalisation...provided the money raised from the tax went directly into social care reforms.

Thank you for your reply to my question - I agree with your points about rehabilitation and would like to see us take inspiration from Norway, but we seem to be a long way from that atm.

[Hawkins009]

the other side of the coin, how many people keep reoffending, and have a list of Criminal records, it could be debated about why should society have to have those individuals in society if they get chance after chance ?

[Twilightstarbright]

@BarelyLiterate agree with someone like him, but I’m guessing @webster1987 is referring to a 19 yo in prison for dealing drugs, which he started doing when he was recruited into a gang as a child. He’ll have ASD, a dysfunctional family background and no qualifications because he barely attended school. These are the type of young people i
work with. I’m not saying what he did wasn’t wrong because it absolutely was, but if we could rewind 15 years and support the family, get support in place at school for him and offer activities that don’t involve hanging around in the streets; I don’t think he’d be in prison.

OP, thank you for what you do.

[CattyCattle]

Also a more serious question, what are your views on custodial sentences, the stats tell us that custodial sentences don't work. The only remedial approaches that are evidenced to work don't include custodial sentences. Does this really annoy you?

[Dombasle]

Obviously you can't say who, but have you dealt with someone who's crime was infamous enough to be a high profile case in the media?

Do you think that people who commit wicked crimes can be genuinely remorseful after serving time behind bars?

[webster1987]

@BarelyLiterate

The general consensus is lock them up forever, which doesn't solve anything

That’s not actually true, though, is it? Wayne Cozens will never abduct, rape & murder another woman because, quite rightly, he will die in prison. The whole life term given to him will solve the problem of the threat he will always represent to women.

There are only about 66 whole life term sentenced prisoners in the UK so your example of Wayne Couzens is an extreme one. In those instances, perhaps yes, I can see the argument. However, perhaps cynically, had that case not have received the media attention it did, I don't believe he would have received that sentence. I do agree though that some people present such a significant risk of harm to people that release may never be an option. That will always be the primary consideration.