I am a Christian (presbyterian with a 'Wee Free' background). AMA

[NoHaudinMaWheest]

This is a follow on from the brilliant orthodox Jewish threads to enable people to ask questions about Christianity without derailing those ones.

I was brought up in the Free Church of Scotland. It is often known as the Wee Frees so I have put that in the title but it is a somewhat derogatory term and not one I would usually use.

I left the Free Church when I was about 30 for really complicated reasons. I spent a long time as an Anglican but having recently moved back to Scotland I now go to the mainstream established Church of Scotland.
I have also attended various independent evangelical and Baptist churches in my time.

So I am happy to try to answer any questions but please note I really am not qualified to speak on behalf of Catholics, or many other Christian branches.

RandomGeocache Yoga is based in Hindu tradition and is therefore seen as inappropriate for Christians to practise.

Birthday parties on Sundays would be a no though it wasn't really an issue when I was growing up as nobody had birthday parties on a Sunday. This is because the whole of the Lord's day is supposed to be spent in worship and learning about God.

This type of PSE wasn't an issue when I was growing up but other things were problematic. My parents and I think most Free Church parents approach was not to pull children out but to make sure that they were taught about them at home so that they knew what they believed. I remember challenging teachers myself on a few occasions.

Moonshineders I am not a Gaelic speaker myself (currently learning) but my grandparents were. There is something so evocative about Gaelic psalm singing.
The Free church traditionally only sang psalms unaccompanied. That changed really quite recently. Most congregations now sing hymns as well though they must have a least one psalm. The unaccompanied singing of the old Scottish metrical psalms is one thing I have missed most about my Free Church background.

I'm a lifelong member of the Church of Scotland. I have never heard of the Free Presbyterian Church as a separate 'thing'. We make this all very complicated.

So there's-
The Church of Scotland
The Free Church of Scotland
The Free Presbyterian Church
The Associated Presbyterian Churches.....

Any more?

I have to admit to being a pretty shallow Christian all things considered. I go to the Church of Scotland because I went as a child and I've stuck to what I know.

But it does suit me fairly well, women can hold any post, gay marriage is now accepted, the rituals are pretty light touch. I've been lucky that it still feels like the right Church for me and I've not had to think too hard about it. I'm learning from your thread tonight too so from one Scottish Christian to another, thank you.

RandomGeocache Halloween was much as you describe. We dressed up as nursery rhyme or historical characters but not witches etc. It was pretty low key. Some Free church people would not participate at all though.

mexican no the Free church and Presbyterians in general do not have nuns or monks. People are expected to live in the world as faithful believers.
The nearest you would get are missionaries (usually abroad) who would leave home and family for years at time to work in another country. The women especially would often remain unmarried. Though there were also single male and married couple missionaries.

ghislaine Yes there are lots of ways in which I am still a Free kirker at heart. And gambling is one of them. I have never bought a lottery ticket and avoid buying raffle tickets if I possibly can.

maireas I think maybe Gordon Brown had some seriousness and sense of service which came from being a son of the manse.

It isn't an invitable result of being born in a manse though!

The Free Church of Scotland (Continuing).

@NoHaudinMaWheest I'm the same never gamble or buy lottery / raffle tickets
I am not happy about hallowe'en but I allowed DD to dress as pumpkin or cat but no witches, devils or zombies etc, talking to older friends even in Western isles it was more guising singing for sweets and tricks, like moving things from croft to croft
I love psalm singing most are just so much more realistic than a lot of choruses we are not happy all the time we are often perplexed by life and hope the seemingly wicked prosper etc while we struggle

I think there's something in it.

John Smith was also a son of the Manse.

(And Theresa May was an Anglican clergyman's daughter)

User565394
There are I think 7 presbyterian churches in Scotland

Church of Scotland
Reformed Presbyterian Church of Scotland
Free Church of Scotland
Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland
United Free Church of Scotland
Associated Presbyterian Churches
Free Church of Scotland Continuing

On the Jewish thread someone mentioned the joke about two Jews on a desert island who build three Shuls. I have heard that one about two Scottish presbyterians and three kirks.

I could do a history lesson on how they all came about but it would probably not be that interesting to most.

I'd be interested!

I'm an evangelical from an Anglican background

My understanding is that at the heart of the Trinity are loving relationships, between Father - Son, Father - Holy Spirit and Son - Holy Spirit. Having relationships at the heart of God is what really differentiates a Christian understanding of God from a Muslim or Jewish one. That's something which isn't always captured by analogies (e.g. water/ice/steam) though I appreciate than trying to explain it is difficult, and analogies help.

I'm interested, too, @NoHaudinMaWheest !

I absolutely understand that, and when I was at Mass in this particular church, I wasn't expecting to receive the sacrament.
The priest made it clear to me (before the service) that he would let me receive it.
My friend explained to me that this was highly unusual.

@TheShellBeach I put a link further up thread about disruption which covers how free church split from church of Scotland and how most reunited to form united free, I'll try and find a link for you, The Associated presbyterians (APC) they split from Free presbyterians over the Lord Mackay of Clashfern incident the doctrinal reason is over freedom of conscience on matters where there is no biblical law and some other things about 35 years ago and Free church continuing (FCC) are relatively recent, in 1999/2000 partly over no longer insisting on exclusive psalmody though for some it was more about various personalities within Free Church and the accusation of being too liberal, Liberal here is a relative term the Free church could not be considered liberal in the way it is generally used in church and theological circles. I lost some friends in that split when they joined FCC as they couldn't or wouldn't agree to disagree.

As a Catholic we have All Saints Day the day after Halloween, so I used to dress dc up as saints. It's quite common in the US, less so here.

There's a similar Welsh joke involving a shipwrecked Welshman who builds two enormous buildings. When asked by his rescuers what they are, he says, "That's the chapel I go to, and that's the chapel I don't go to."

That’s lovely

You sound very similar to the Primitive Methodists here in England. My good friend belongs to this church and her father toasted all his children's weddings with lemonade. She thinks that the lottery is a bad idea, and was disappointed with Gordon Brown relaxing gambling laws.

Ok history lesson. Buckle up - it is complicated.

At the Reformation, the church in Scotland became Presbyterian the established Church of Scotland.

During the 17th Century the Stuart monarchs tried to impose an Episcopalian system and prayer book on the Scottish church. There was a lot of opposition to this and battles fought. Many people who didn't want to submit to the imposed system met in the open air with ministers who had been expelled from their churches. There was a lot of politics involved as well as faith, but people did suffer and were martyred for their faith.
The situation was eventually resolved by the settlement under King William and Mary which reestablished the Presbyterian church in Scotland. Some of those who had been most opposed and suffered most during the 'Killing Times' remained out of the Established church and they became the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Scotland.

During the 18th century various other groups left the Established Church of Scotland. The issues were varied but mainly concerned state interference in church government and feelings that the Established Church was not maintaining true doctrine. The most enduring of these groups were the Associate Presbytery and the Relief Church. There were further divisions and reunions in these groups but eventually in the 19th century they had mainly formed the United Presbyterian Church. This bit is simplified a lot!

The problems about state interference and differences in theology continued in the Established Church and this led to the Disruption of 1843 which cottagecheese has explained above.

Initially the Free Church had no churches or manses and, as the schools were run by the Established Church, Free Church school teachers also lost their jobs and homes.
Gradually the Free Church built new churches, manses and schools (and teacher training colleges - most of the Education departments in Scottish universities today were originally Free Church foundations).

In 1876 most of the Reformed Presbyterian Church joined the Free Church but some remained separate. They are now very small and strongest in southwest Scotland which was their original heartland.

Parts of the Free Church became more liberal in theology towards the end of the 19th century and there was also a movement to unite with the United Presbyterian Church. There were also groups opposed to both movements. In 1893, when the union seemed imminent, a group left the Free Church and became the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland.

The union of the Free Church and the United Presbyterian Church eventually did take place in 1900 and became the United Free Church.
However, a minority remained as the Free Church of Scotland. Some of the Free Presbyterians rejoined the Free Church then, but others remained as the Free Presbyterian Church. There isn't really any doctrinal difference between the Free Church and the Free Presbyterians but the FPs have remained much stricter in practice and the recent changes in Free Church practice have widened this gap.

In 1929 most of the United Free Church rejoined the Church of Scotland as parliamentary legislation had resolved the state interference issues. Again a minority stayed out and still exist. I have to admit that I don't know much about them.

In 1989 the Free Presbyterian Church divided over the issue about Lord Mackay as mentioned previously and the Associated Presbyterian Churches were formed. They are a little less strict in practice.

In 2000 the Free Church divided and the Free Church Continuing was formed. There were disagreements about how a case involving an individual minister was handled but there was also an underlying unease about some movements to change practice within the Free Church. The minister concerned was made something of a focal point.

This is recent history and divided friends and families and is still a cause of pain.

The Free Church Continuing were however correct that changes were afoot in the Free Church and these (mainly concerning the form of worship) have now come to pass.

Congratulations if you got to the end of that!!

@NoHaudinMaWheest 🎊🎈🎉👏

Just made me think of Terry Pratchett.

This was great, very comprehensive. I only have one question about Scottish Presbyterian denominations: which one was the guy from Chariots of Fire? Or was he none of them? 😆

Eric Liddell? Wouldn't run on a Sunday so swapped events with Harold Abraham.