Dad of 3 adopted children (1 birth child)

[needhelp1970]

..all have varying needs caused from early life trauma . 13 years in AMA

PACE is really difficult to manage constantly and you have to parent so differently. Natural consequences are the easiest way to manage. If they smash a toy , punishing them will have no impact as they can't correlate being on naughty spot or having a internet device removed or early bed to breaking a toy. Natural consequence is you can't play with that toy anymore.

A lot of parents see this as being too soft in the child but a typical child can understand reprimand to behaviours.

We did use a thing called 'banking' an awful lot in younger years which worked.
You over praise for the good stuff 'well done on toting your shoes on, well done for holding my hand, well done for saying Thankyou. Over praise the normal means you've banned enough praise to remove from the bank when you need to pull them up about something . You have coins in your bank to do this.

We have read and read and read and researched, I've got my own group of 200 dads sharing ideas and I'm confident I'm pretty well versed in what works and what doesn't but right now we've done all we can and now it's all about protecting ourselves until they decide to leave as they keep saying they want to.

We could be anyone to then they have no emotions for us. They never have . If I collapsed in the floor right now they would most likely ignore it and get on with their day. This isn't their fault but it feels like it is.

Thanks for sharing this. I do think as a PP said adoption is still very misunderstood in the general public and amongst professionals unfortunately. Its an absolute disaster that adopted children are regularly failed so spectacularly.

@needhelp1970
I'm so sorry reading this;

A lady I used to work with adopted 3 siblings a boy and 2 girls at toddler ages and had a catalogue of issues similar to yours that nearly gave her a nervous breakdown.

Her husband left as he couldn't stand it and she turned to alcohol and eventually the children (teenagers by then) went to a residential setting as their needs became too complex for her to deal with, especially on her own.

With the agreement of social services, they were put back into care which sounds a horrendous thing to do but it was the only option for them. I would never judge anyone for doing that. This lady was the nicest person you could wish to meet but she just couldn't cope.
You sound like you've done your absolute best with these kids.
Think about yourself, your wife and your birth daughter.

Izzy that is defo the case, my wife is adopted and she has nine of these issues as she wasn't a child from trauma.

How myself and my wife are still together is a miracle . Most of the adoptive families i know their marriages have failed

The system for adoption does not work. The fact is that, when I was a SW involved with adoption - a long while ago now! - babies were offered for adoption very early on. These babies were normal fit undamaged children a few months or weeks old - they simply had parents who could not care for them, or deal with the social stigma.

Everything has changed - the stigma has gone, and the babies now stay with their natural parents.

The end result of all this is that children offered for adoption now are older, come from disturbed backgrounds (or they would not have needed to be taken into care), have siblings needing adopting too, or have disabilities of one sort or another - and so often they have attachment issues which makes them test the boundaries to the Nth degree.

A close relative of mine adopted two siblings at age 18m and 3 years, and frankly they have wrecked the lives of these adoptive parents. As a SW I was concerned from the day these children were offered, as it was too quick, too little preparation and of course I knew what the future could potentially hold. And that future has held all that one might have expected: drug use, destructive behaviour, school refusal, suicide attempts, crime and imprisonment - and so it goes on.

If LAs are going to offer children for adoption, then they must provide all the necessary back-up services for life. They know these children are damaged; they know these children are going to throw a hand grenade into family life - but they vanish over the horizon and leave families to battle for help, banging their heads against the brick wall of CAMHS, school special help in school etc. Basically these adoptive parents are acting as therapists to damaged children, without having the necessary training or access to those who have.

Will anything change? - I doubt it. The concept of prevention and long term thinking is lost on this government.

OP - you have my sympathy.

Oh thank you! My previous post was in reply to your previous one.
I really appreciate this info as that's the approach we're trying currently as we've seen that consequences make things worse. I appreciate we have a long way to go and we have very many issues yet to address.
Unfortunately the local therapy charity that is the go to for our area still advises consequences and ' planned ignoring' which you can imagine does not help with the child who feels emotionally abandoned in the first place.

@needhelp1970
I totally understand how stressful this must be but you and your wife sound like you've done an amazing job.

The lady I know still goes to visit the children she adopted at the residential setting but is no longer legally their mother - she has no parental responsibilities at all; she feels awful it eats her up and she has struggled with feeling like she was letting them down but trying to burn the house down was the final straw!

Gosh sounds incredibly difficult.

What were their early years / pre- adoption experiences?

Is the ASD supposed to be something they inherited or a response to the trauma?

Do you & your wife have counseling? How do you cope?!

Needhelp1970 - I could have written almost the same as you . Have 3 adopted Dc and they were the same age as yours when we got them. I look back and laugh at how easy the primary years were , compared to now . My are now 22, 20 and 18 and emotionally years and years behind . I totally agree that all adopted children should have an EHCP.
And most definitely agree Nature over nurture has won.
How my Dh and I have stayed together I really don't know. We are on first name terms with the local police in our area. I could go on and on about how crap our adoption team are n our country but that won't help my blood pressure. If we could turn back the clock we wouldn't do it again.
Hugs to you and your wife .

I thought I'd rewrite something again until I saw the ages , parallel lives.

I've seen more of police than I ever have done in my life. They love to think they're cool where ultimately they're all frightened but too scared to admit it.

And as you say emotionally years behind all their peers. What's the current state of play.

Just wanted to say, you are doing an amazing job OP.

I work with LAC including those who have experienced adoption break down. The trauma they have experienced is difficult to manage, understandably. PACE is very helpful. I've been doing this work for over 20 years - and it never gets easier. We have so many children who come back and thank us for the support we gave. This is why I continue in this work.

I adopted my son at age 4. He'd obviously had a horrendous early life to be in that position. The teenage years were terrible, a constant battle of nature versus nurture. It's only now at 23 he is turning into a "nice" person but still has his moments. I always wanted to adopt more than one but, he was so challenging, that I could only cope with him. I admire you for adopting three.

OP I really respect you for sharing your experiences. I am a very nervous first time adopter at family finding stage. Looking for one child. What do you wish you had known when you were at my stage?if I’m determined to do it , what advice would you give my husband and I? I’m very scared to be honest as I have no illusions of what could be in front of us. It’s very hard to be in a position where it is either adoption or no children at all as we don’t have the possibility of a birth child.

Nothing but admiration for all adopters.

Oh man just replied and lost it . Bummer

So I would say make sure you have a good support network , you will soon find out who your friends are. Friends will come and go.

Stick up for your child. Typical education settings haven't got skills and knowledge for dealing with children of trauma. Not saying all adopted kids are the same , however I haven't met any that haven't got any trauma issues. If you have any issues with school out of the norm (especially around friendships) then start pushing for an EHCP as it will only get worse. Primary schools will do everything to stop you getting one as they hate to admit they can't cope. They can't but at that age it easier to mask like it was for ours , when it comes to secondary it all falls apart.

Build up contacts around the adoption support, who are the children's social workers, how do you access the ASF (adoption support fund which is £5000 per child per year for therapeutic interventions /assessment) which can be used for getting diagnoses much quicker than CAMHS ever will.

Speak to placing authority about allowance , we still receive it 14 years later every week, it was only supposed to be for 3 years but I don't give up.

If you're child takes more care than a typical child then you need to apply for DLA and thereafter caters allowance if not working or earning under £500 a month. (Circa)

Each childs school gets what's Called pupil premium, find out what your school is spending it on, it's for your child, not for them. We used it for 1 on 1 interventions on school for counselling, it can even be used on additional requirements which would help such as learning aids, iPads, etc

Don't bury your head in the sand thinking it will get better , if you feel there's an issue deal with it. Don't wait for it to get worse.

I'm not trying to put you off but be prepared. Having just one will make a massive difference than us having 3 but you need to be ready to fight for what they deserve. We have close friends who have adopted one and they're child is going same route as my eldest did at the same age but the husband is out to g the behaviour as 'just kids' it's not.

If you're husband wants to chat to other like minded dads then ask him to join my group on Facebook , Dads of Attachment Disorder. It's a nine judgemental place for dads to question, vent , seek advice and just chat. I've even organised weekends away for us all.

m.facebook.com/groups/1442134979231031/?ref=sharem.facebook.com/groups/1442134979231031/?ref=share&exp=9594

Also me and my wife were unsuccessful in ivf and had 3 fertility issues between us. 15 years ago a doctor told us we'd never have children due to this. 7 years after telling us he was the doctor who induced my wife for our birth child. I'm not going to insult you by saying you never know as I don't know your situation and I could have kicked anyone who said to us ' you never know one day it might happen'

I disagree. All of their issues will be rooted in their early childhood experiences.

Have you researched fostering to adopt? I have friends who did this, fostered a 6 month old then adopted him 12 months later. 1 year after that, they adopted his brother from birth.

Again yes I agree with that, what I'm meaning is that all issues will mainly come from school and trying to navigate life socially due to their early life trauma.

I think having an ehcp is vital. They need to be tracked, monitored and supported. They don't even have PEPs. School is where many of the issues come to a head with the increased number of social interactions and influences. EHCPs aren't just for children with learning difficulties. I think LAC should have the same. They are at a significant disadvantage in school due to their background and an ehcp would keep them on the radar.

Primary schools will do everything to stop you getting one as they hate to admit they can't cope. I don't think that is the reason, nor do I think that they actually do do all they can to stop you getting an EHCP. It is in the school's interests to have the needs clearly outlined and suitable help put in. It is not a matter of being unwilling to say they cannot cope.

The reason that EHCPs are so problematical is that an assessment is made of need, an EHCP registered and then the LA do not fund the strategies that are outlined in the EHCP. Often this means employing an extra TA, but the LA will not fund all of this, only a small part. Schools have really tight budgets and finding the extra money is often impossible. As a school governor it makes me very cross that needs are assessed and agreed, but then not funded - do they expect us to conjure this money from the ether?

I hear what you are saying about the problems of adopted children - see my previous post - so am very much onside, but just wanted to shed some light on the problems that EHCPs can cause for schools, through no fault of theirs.

As I said before, adoptive parents are being used as unpaid therapists for damaged children, without having the training or skills to do this; and the door to those who do have the skills is firmly closed.

It is wholly unacceptable that adopting a child should condemn the parents to years and years of battling tooth and nail to get the basic minimum of help that is needed, on top of the demands of being a parent.

I adopted my dds as a single parent at nearly 8 and nearly five. Nothing could have prepared me. They were like wild animals.
Oldest left home at 16, came back pregnant, baby taken into care right from hospital, which was heartbreaking but the best thing for her, and has been subsequently adopted. Now 21, oldest went to jail for repeatedly assaulting me. Our relationship continues to be difficult and I worry about her life choices.
I put youngest back into care at 15 because I couldn't keep her safe with constant running off, mixing with dodgy people, drink, drugs and self harm. She is now 18, pregnant (gay but a one night stand) and doing a fantastic job in taking care of me as I recover from neurosurgery. It is looking very positive for her to keep her baby and if she looks after her the way she is looking after me, she will be a great mum.
Their brother, who grew up in foster care and homes after being removed, has just become a dad and his child has been taken into care. The cycle continues...
I thought that after six months with me, my two would be fine, and love was all they needed. Boy, was I naive!
I get asked a lot if I regret having them and the answer is no. I would rather have tried and failed, rather than not tried and spent the rest of my life wondering what if.
I do think they would have split up any relationship though. I think any marriage has to be very strong to survive adoption.
I know many adopters and our children have many similarities. Different backgrounds, different upbringings but too many similarities to be confidence. I come down on the side of nature in the nature v nurture debate.

That's hit me. I can empathise so much and the future like this scares me, on the other side I'm in no way deluded to think that may experience is the worst out there. Myself and my wife were prob just a few days from splitting last year. However we've pushed through , and sometimes I do need to take a step back and be grateful of where we are.

The kids hurt me and I say I wish I hadn't done in, but I know I've given them a better life than they would of ever had after the horrendous start they had. I just wish I could switch off for more than 20 minutes. Thanks for sharing

I'm an adoptee and am surprised the "nature versus nurture" debate is still mentioned. Why do people have no problem accepting eye colour or hair colour is genetic but personality, intelligence, likes and dislikes can be changed by the environment children are raised in?