I assess disability claims - AMA

[Galactico]

Just as the title says!

I know the public feeling towards assessors isn’t always good. I’ve been doing the job for about 7 years, let me give you some insight into the “other” side.

Thanks. I'm awaiting mandatory reconsideration at the moment and sent in a few more letters etc. I didn't get to the top of the physio waiting list until after I submitted my PIP claim, although even now they say don't submit appointment letters etc so I suppose if the MR doesn't go through I'd have to pay my physio for a letter. Haven't seen a consultant yet, in fact family is paying for me to see neurology privately as the wait in my area (even with uncontrolled seizures) is apparently a year, minimum, and it took me several months to even persuade the GPs to refer me to anyone. I might, possibly maybe, have seen a cardiologist on the NHS by the time of my appeal. I hadn't heard of patient summary but I will ask, thank you. I'm in Wales and it seems ridiculously hard to get hold of your own records here, £50 a letter and I don't have the money for that really.

I didn’t day that. I said that a large proportion of those who do appeal are successful.

Someone corrected you on this a few pages ago.

@TheShellBeach Apologies, I said I imagined a lot of people do appeal. You’re right.

To be honest, I agree with you in respect that giving up is what the DWP wants people to do. There’s a reason it’s not an easy process.

I'm undiagnosed. All my hospital letters state my test results and the symptoms I have.

"I think that around 80% of appeals are successful, so I imagine people do appeal very often"

Your words, OP. So you did say it and you were wrong, and please do not try to make out I am lying. I had enough of that with my assessments.

I'm not sure if thinks are different in Wales but in England Gp's will print off a patient summary at no cost ( well most Gp's will ! ). Good luck with your MR and definitely take it to appeal if the MR does not change their decision.

Okay - what is the reason?
You think the DWP wants claimants to give up.

You've agreed. Why do the DWP want people to give up? No, hang on - I know the answer to that.

Why is the process so difficult? Do you think it could or should be easier for claimants?

Haven't read the thread:
"Everyone who does my job is medically qualified (doctor, nurse, physiotherapist, occupational therapist) and has undergone further training through the job itself."

How much training do you get? I was asked what one of my conditions was and it was decided that even though I was under a consultant, it wasn't that bad. But this is the same woman who decided there's no medical reasons why I can't drive despite being registered partially sighted and you can't drive if on certain medication. Mine at the time was known to cause difficulties concentrating

Thanks @IndieK1d and @Babyroobs , I will try and get a patient summary and see if they have any hospital letters with my symptoms on, the last time I asked for my A&E discharge paperwork and test results they charged me £50 for it and it didn't have the test results, just the letter that said "patient came due to seizures, discharged".

How much training do you get?

Two weeks LOL.

I saw the 9% statistic. That’s after mandatory reconsiderations are done. 65% of claims are awarded right away, and 23% of the 35% that are declined go to MR (with 5% overturned) before the 9% statistic occurs.

In relation to the difficulties, you’ll have seen the form you fill in. I think it’s 36 pages. There’s the first hurdle. How many people are intimidated by that form? Lots, I bet.

The waiting times are atrocious from submission of the application to interview (I regularly see forms filled in around late 2021).

I think it’s purposely designed to be difficult to claim because they don’t want to you bother. We have a Conservative government who have no interest in people whom they think are taking from the system but not contributing anything (via income tax and so on).

I might sound like a bit of a conspiracy theorist but I have long thought that their aim is to gently and quietly eradicate as many sick, injured and disabled people as possible. They’re callous and I wish someone would comment who works for Capita or another private provider. I’d be keen to know if they are paid an incentive to refuse claims.

You said you’re in Scotland - do you think the eventual change to ADP will be better for you?

Where is this “two weeks training” idea coming from?

Everyone I work with us at least Bachelors degree educated. Most have Honours degrees, a few have Masters. All in relevant areas.

@Galactico

hmm. It is definitely a few weeks. Yes my sister has a degree in MH nursing which definitely didn’t make her an expert in physical conditions.

@DarkKarmaIlama You won’t find anyone who’s an expert in everything we see. Not a chance. People have their niche areas depending on their previous experiences, and any gaps are filled by support from colleagues, self-directed learning and various other CPD methods such as seminars, training days etc.

The initial training you’re referring to is to familiarise you with the software, how to structure reports, the most important questions to be asking and so on. You could never teach all of the mental, physical, cognitive, sensory and learning conditions we see; it’d take months.

It would have been better (for me and maybe others) if you'd said that at the beginning of the thread, OP.

You seem to be agreeing with many people's views and are now coming across an anti-DWP and pro-claimant, which was not the case when the thread started.

Yes, I do think that ADP in Scotland will be a better system, not least because there won't be reassessments every couple of years, and because the Scottish Parliament is better overall with benefits.

People in Scotland who get Carer's Allowance, for example, get an additional £9 a week in comparison to those in England and Wales (Carer's Allowance Supplement) and this is often increased to an additional £18 a week when times are rough (such as during the pandemic).

I have more faith in the Scottish Parliament than the Westminster one. DH has been on maximum Daily Living and Mobility for some time now and I was glad to get the extra Carer's Allowance. It did make a difference.

And that is exactly the issue. The people making the decisions don't have enough training. The system needs training so people are allocated their speciality

In my daughters first claim that was rejected, even at MR, I was also told her nhs physiotherapy program was "just play"

It should not be up to us to write in every single box not only the daily struggles but the medical details of their condition, repetitively, and how that brings the issues.

And I'm not talking about an unheard of condition. My daughter has Down Syndrome.

But that is literally what you have to do

If an assessor or someone reading a form is making a decision they should be trained to know about that condition. That failing is one of the major causes of all the stress that they put on people

I think PP meant "how much training do the DWP give people who are appointed to make assessments of claimants' forms", not how much training someone appointed to the job already has.

Although, mind you (and I am a nurse, too) there are a LOT of nurses who lack empathy and working for the DWP is an ideal job for them. They get to be judge and jury, don't they? And I can see why this would appeal to people like this.

The nurse (she told me she was one) who did my reassessment after the initial three years was like that. I knew (and told DH) when she was doing the assessment that she would give me zero points. The first thing she asked me was how I was able to look after two cats if I considered I was disabled.

I mean FFS. That is an awful thing (and irrelevant - but she was trying to make out that I could open sachets of cat food so that she could deny that I was able to cook meals). And lo and behold - that is exactly what happened. It was written there when I got the papers. "You said that you could not cook meals easily but you also said you could open sachets of cat food so you were lying."

I am paraphrasing, of course, but that was the long and the short of it.

I have to ask, OP - especially in light of the political beliefs you have shared - HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT, BEING PART OF THIS SYSTEM?

You could never teach all of the mental, physical, cognitive, sensory and learning conditions we see; it’d take months.

Who cares? It should take months. You're there to do a specific job and you are all undertrained for it. FFS admit that, at least.

@TheShellBeach Not sure why you keep asking me, in bold and now capitalised font how I sleep at night. I’ve answered that question about 3 times. I would leave, but my personal life situation doesn’t allow for me working long shifts, nights etc. If there were another job, I’d do it. I miss clinical work a lot.

RE the training - if it took months, then that’d be fine. I’m not agreeing with them not giving months of training. From a financial perspective, they’d never do it.

They should just specialise you. It's not that hard

You can't be expected to know everything about every condition.

OP Why do you think the staff turnover rate is high?

Yeah, that’d be an option I’d like. Direct the cases to specialists. Let the staff concentrate their learning and training on a few areas rather than many different ones.

@TheShellBeach The issue of being overruled by non-qualified people is a big one, that forces a lot of people out of the job.

The workload itself can be tough. If you have a 2 hour slot from 9am-11am to see someone and they don’t attend for whatever reason, you move on to someone else. That’s fair enough. The issue is that your 2 hour slot remains the same. You’re still expected to be finished by 11am. It’s a challenge to say the least.

It can be extremely tough to fit someone in at short notice with no additional time. I think this is where mistakes are made, corners are cut, conditions aren’t adequately researched.

There is a bit of flexibility in that you can be run late - just like a GP or dentist might do - if required. But be prepared to skip lunch, be prepared to work late. That grates on people after a while.

Well at least you admit you are all under trained. Your posts come across as very wet to be honest. You essentially agree with everything we are saying but then you continue to do the job anyway.

Congratulations. Not sure what else can be added to this thread really. You accept you work under an immoral framework but it suits you as you don’t need to do shift work as your partner is in the forces. The job is convenient to you and you’re unlikely to make a difference or align with values that nurses usually have. That in a nutshell.

Good luck. You’ll need it.

It's the bit about being overruled and made to ammend reports, by anonymous non-clinicians that I can't get past (amongst other things). How is it not a threat to your professional registration, at least? As a hospital OT on acute medical wards, I'm constantly battling non-clinicians (bed managers, divisional managers, etc) who try to get me to change my clinical assessments to justify pushing discharges unsafely. It's draining, it's grating, it'll mean I'll never be a band 7, but I have to do what's right according to my professional body and code of ethics. If I consistently went in to my notes and changed things after another ear bashing, without real clinical justification, and that led to a patient experiencing harm down the line...I'd be, rightly, in front of the HCPC and looking at being struck off. I don't get why asessors are protected from this?

The way they get around it is that the DWP definition of “functioning” is low.
To you or I, someone with poor hand grip is likely to need help in the kitchen with opening tins or lifting a pot of water. To them, they may have that poor grip but they are still likely to cope. Buy a smaller pot, take longer opening the tin. That’s fine.

Any changes made on the request of the DWP are recorded as such; it’s clear that it’s them who are making the call and not us, which protects our registration status.

I think it’s a convenience thing that they ask us to physically change it, that’s all.