I converted to Roman Catholicism AMA

[lightsandmirrors]

I was recieved into the Roman Catholic Church a few years ago, having previously been an atheist. Ask me anything and I will try to answer!

[quote Toddlerteaplease]@WhichOneNowTheRedOrTheGreen but ending life through abortion is murder! What else could it be. [/quote]
The alternative to abortion is to force women to give up their bodily autonomy, to essentially become nothing more than a non-human incubator for 9 months, to go through medical procedures that they have not consented to, and then to give birth to a child who is not wanted and won't have anyone to care for it (presumably you are not stepping up to adopt all the unwanted children that these women give birth to?) And for what?

I grew up RCC, left the church in my 20's due to the rampant misogyny and medieval mindset. I joined the Episcopal Church in my 30's, which is the successor to the C of E in America. I love the EC for its progressive nature. A woman baptized my children and I have had leadership roles in my parish.

I get what you are saying about the rock-bound certainty of everything in the RCC being a comfort, but there are two basic problems. First, some teachings of the Bible are eternal, like love thy neighbor. Some were specific to that time, e.g. the subordinate place of women. The RCC has always been incapable of sorting this out, or do it with glacial slowness.

The other problem is when the RCC just gets it completely wrong, their sense of infallibility prevents any rethinking of the issue. Like the selling of indulgences or locking up Galileo for daring to write that the earth revolves around the sun.

This bloody pigheadedness led to the Protestant Reformation and centuries or religious wars, blaming the Jews for the death of Christ and antisemitism, and the cruel subjugation of women.

So my questions to you, OP, would be what would you say to Galileo about his treatment at the hands of mother church and do you really see the RCC's certainty that its teachings are infallible as an unalloyed good?

@RiaOverTheRainbow

Two questions:

1. Why would you teach your son to question things if you value not having to think for yourself?

1. You've said there are no teachings you find "morally reprehensible." Given that many people do find the current teachings unconscionable, where would you draw the line? Am I right in thinking that you find it easier to justify things which negatively affect other people, so long as you and yours are ok?

I feel like I have critically questioned things and as a result of that made the decision I have. I wouldn't want him to blindly follow the teachings of the Catholic Church without considering other options as I have done. That would not be a mature faith.

I think that for things that affect me, I am forced to confront them and make definite actions on them. Whereas you're right that it is easy for me to say I don't agree with abortion when I have never been in the position of really feeling like I needed one or that I don't believe a gay marriage can be sacramental when I have never been in a same sex relationship. And that is why I would never think badly of anyone who did or struggled with those issues because I have never been in their shoes and I don't know how I personally would react.

@TheSpottedZebra

You mentioned you had been given opportunities to get involved in the life of the church- was it the cleaning or the flowers?

Ha! Never been offered to do that, I have been asked to be a minister of the word, so reading from the bible during Mass and an extraordinary minister of the eucharist, so distributing the wine during Mass. I have also been asked to speak about my experiences during parish courses.

@RosyPickle

Hello LightsandMirrors. Can't work out how to quote on my new phone but I agree the Marian beliefs aren't morally reprehensible or anything. They're not a stumbling block to me in that sense although I know they might be to a more hardline Protestant. It's more the fact that you have to accept them. In fact isn't it a mortal sin not to? Which brings me to the other side of Catholicism which ultimately made me decide I couldn't accept it. The doctrine of mortal sin - commit one and just hope you don't get run over by a bus before you make it to confession. And so many things are mortal sins. I just don't feel that kind of teaching is conducive to a relationship with a loving God. It made me very anxious over time.

I do find it quite confusing what counts as a mortal sin and what counts as a venial sin. However I always found the three stage test to be quite helpful, being was it serious, did you do it knowingly, and did you do it freely. In those circumstances I think it can be quite hard to commit a mortal sin. I am sorry that it made you anxious, that doesn't sound like a nice place to be.

So compassion = wholehearted approval? I guess medical professionals should be ethically obliged to renounce all personal religious beliefs in case they're offensive (even anonymously on the internet)?

Fwiw I don't agree with their views but I don't see why they should be vilified for what is actually not such an outrageous idea (that a foetus is a human life). I disagree with a pro-life position because I think pregnancy is such a difficult burden and should therefore always be a choice, and I don't think you can equate an early pregnancy, say the embryos mentioned in the thought experiment, with a child.

That doesn't mean I think someone is hateful for not agreeing, it would depend on their conduct more generally. Picketing an abortion clinic or haranguing someone about it, sure. Having a personal belief and expressing it on a thread about religious views, not so much.

@RosyPickle

I think nurses are perfectly entitled to their views as long as they're professional and respectful. It's not something that would really even come up in, say, geriatrics (I have no idea what area toddlerteatime works in admittedly). Not agreeing with something doesn't necessarily mean lacking compassion or being judgmental towards individuals does it?

I know abortion is a hugely emotive issue but neither the OP nor toddler were the ones who brought it up. They just answered the question when it was asked. It can hardly have been a surprise that on a thread about converting to Catholicism, that question would elicit the answers it did.

Exactly! This is a thread about the RC church which teaches that abortion is wrong! There will be many many people who share this view. I am in paediatrics so it's unlikely to be an issue and hasn't even come up in the first 17 years of my career. Since I am a professional I would also keep my mouth shut if it did come up.

@ExpectTheWorst

How did you realise that you suddenly believed in God? That must surely be the cornerstone of a conversion. And then you looked around to see which religion fitted your needs best, correct?

You're right my belief in God came first, religion followed quite a way after, maybe 5ish years. I am not sure that suddenly is the right word because that too was gradual. But I think I just gradually found myself agreeing more with the arguments for God than against. There wasn't one argument that persuaded me. I used to scoff at people who were religious, I thought they were stupid. But I came to realise I was being narrow minded.

It's a real shame that threads about the Catholic Church always descend into the same arguments. And that there is such hatred towards the Catholic Church. The wonderful things about it and they joy it gives is completely overlooked.

@AuntyPasta

What was missing in you, in your life, that you went looking for something to fill it?

I had a belief in God and for a while that was enough, but eventually I wanted a framework for that belief and for it manifest itself in my life in a physical way rather than just being something I thought in my and didn't act on. Community and belonging are also really strong urges for humans to want to satisfy as well and I am sure that played a big part too. In modern life I think a lot of us can feel a bit adrift.

@Puffalicious

I cannot seriously believe that you have used Brexit to explain what free thinking and free speech can do?! FFS. If we lived without our ability to make our own decisions we'd still be in the dark ages or in Gilead. The ability to make our own choices is what makes humanity as terrible and as wonderful as it is. I, for one, am no sheep (I prefer to think of myself as a fennec fox and encourage my DC to be pink fairy armadillo or perhaps star-nosed moles).

You are hiding behind religion to excuse your right-wing, traditional views. Masterbation is a sin? Are you living in another dimension. I have serious concern for your DC growing up in such an environment, having views such as these imposed upon them. We are merely the gatekeepers of our children: nurturing and guiding them to become the people they want to be.

I was brought up in the pomp, ceremony and utter lies and control of the Catholic church and school system. Thank goodness my mam was a liberal Catholic who always told us to chose our own path. My 2 best friends and sisters are still practising Catholics but liberal, free-thinking ones who believe in an individual's right to chose and body autonomy. If they were as you describe yourself I could bear to be in their company.

The Catholic congregations are dwindling fast, no wonder.

Its strange to me you would say that because I definitely wouldn't think of myself as right wing and I don't any of my friends or family would either, but hey ho.

"We are merely the gatekeepers of our children: nurturing and guiding them to become the people they want to be." I agree entirely with this and would never impose my belief on my child.

@WhichOneNowTheRedOrTheGreen

"In cases of rape ofcourse that is not the case and it would be truly truly horrible but the answer would be that there are two innocent parties the woman and the unborn child. Why should the child die because of the crimes of the father?"

AMA

I'll ask you, how can you write that and not realise that you sound like a stupid heartless cunt?

Do you really genuinely hold that belief?

I genuinely do.

@Puffalicious

However whether someone wearing liturgical dress or having beautiful things is a sin seems a bit less clear cut and I guess is for God to decide.

What are you going to do OP when you find out that God is merely a construct put in place by society to control the masses?

Stop going to church?

And that there is such hatred towards the Catholic Church. The wonderful things about it and they joy it gives is completely overlooked.

Hmmmm, yeah. Turning a blind eye to little kids being raped by grown men (men who then preach every Sunday about what sinners the congregation are) will do that I'm afraid. Sorry about that.

@Toddlerteaplease
😂😂😂. Thank fuck you and your views are in the minority

And terminating the growth of a bunch of cells after that bunch of cells was conceived by rape is 'wrong' and shouldn't be allowed. But raping an actual child and then taking steps at the highest level to cover up that rape.... Well, we are only human, and humans make errors....?

Honestly, you make me sick.

I'd say most of the negative comments come from people who are lapsed Catholics themselves!

OP the idea that babies are born sinners is strong.

I have a DS but he is still a baby so not taught him much yet! I would like to teach him to be open minded and to question things.

Catholicism doesn't really lend itself well to that approach does it?

As someone who has been the woman in one of your examples, no of course when you put it in such a simplistic way I don't believe a potential 'child' should suffer for the sins of their father but that's a strawman argument as I hope you also don't believe a real, living, sentient, existing woman should suffer for the sins of a man either, especially when they are the victim of an horrific crime.

A crime your god (if you believe in him) allowed to happen and result in conception (again, if you believe in him). Not all sex results in conception and sperm doesn't have free will, so if you believe in God he has chosen to create life at that point after that crime. Hardly the action of a loving deity is it?

I don't have a faith though I was raised Catholic. The kind of god who would allow so many things that happen and blame them on the 'free will' of men isn't the kind of God I can understand believing in, let alone worshiping.

As others have said it's troubling that what attracted you to Catholicism was that it offered you a set of rules to live by in order to reduce the stress of autonomy and critical thinking as you felt lost and stressed. Even if those rules are at odds with women's rights, bodily autonomy and genuine empathy.

Good for you. Congratulations. I'm RC, radical feminist too. I'm pro yrs, pro system marriages, pro divorce etc etc. All the PP, calling you out on the crimes of RC can equally lose sleep every night because they too live in a patriarchy, they may just get up, go shopping, but everything they do us within the bounds of patriarchy.

I always like to think of the lonlieness of those "spiritual but not religious' types . Guess what more charity is done in the name of God than but.

Unless of course you're a wee stomping atheist.

Unless of course you're a wee stomping atheist.

Lovely christian attitude there especially to people on the thread (and in the wider world) who have expressed personal and painful points of discussion related to the Catholic Church. Patronising, snarky comments dripping in judgement don't really do much for your cause.

Patronising, snarky comments dripping in judgement don't really do much for your cause exactly what I thought.

You don't know anyone's journey to atheism. Sneering attitudes like yours have led to sectarianism throughout Ireland and Scotland. I've lived it, I know.

Have you read the god delusion?

@RiaOverTheRainbow

A "life begins at conception" thought experiment: You're in a burning building and have time to save a container of 100 frozen embryos OR one living child. Which do you choose? Does your answer change if it were your embryos vs your ds? What would the church tell you to do?

I would choose the child every time. Of course I would, its an emotional decision. But I would argue that is because I am human and so I naturally place value where I can see it (if that makes sense, its a very inarticulate way of saying it). But just because I can't readily perceive the inherent value of 100 embryos. That doesn't mean they don't have any.

As an educated person, which is assuming you are, do you actually believe there is a god? What is God to you?

@MissConductUS

I grew up RCC, left the church in my 20's due to the rampant misogyny and medieval mindset. I joined the Episcopal Church in my 30's, which is the successor to the C of E in America. I love the EC for its progressive nature. A woman baptized my children and I have had leadership roles in my parish.

I get what you are saying about the rock-bound certainty of everything in the RCC being a comfort, but there are two basic problems. First, some teachings of the Bible are eternal, like love thy neighbor. Some were specific to that time, e.g. the subordinate place of women. The RCC has always been incapable of sorting this out, or do it with glacial slowness.

The other problem is when the RCC just gets it completely wrong, their sense of infallibility prevents any rethinking of the issue. Like the selling of indulgences or locking up Galileo for daring to write that the earth revolves around the sun.

This bloody pigheadedness led to the Protestant Reformation and centuries or religious wars, blaming the Jews for the death of Christ and antisemitism, and the cruel subjugation of women.

So my questions to you, OP, would be what would you say to Galileo about his treatment at the hands of mother church and do you really see the RCC's certainty that its teachings are infallible as an unalloyed good?

I would say to Galileo, thank you for the work you did for science and our knowledge of the universe. I would say I am sorry they weren't recognised as such at the time and that he was punished for that. I can certainly see that a certainty in infallible teaching can cause problems and it has done so in the past. That is why the church has to be very careful when it formulates its teachings.