I converted to Roman Catholicism AMA

[lightsandmirrors]

I was recieved into the Roman Catholic Church a few years ago, having previously been an atheist. Ask me anything and I will try to answer!

I find it very worrying when anyone wants to hand over their ability to make decisions and think independently to an organisation, particularly one run by and dominated by men. Men who do not marry, so they have no experience of living with women, having daughters or dealing with the reality of providing for very large families ( no contraception). Men who do not see the effects first hand of women who are exhausted by childbirth or whose life choices are limited because their only real role is to be subservient to men. Things have changed a bit in the last fifty years, but the CC is still deeply misogynistic and fixated on power and control. There is a deep institutionalised fear of sexuality, particularly that of women. The worship of Mary is the worship of an idealised , non sexual woman . This where the Madonna/Whore idea originated, which has done such damage across the board in relationships, in society and within families.

You say you accept the Church’s views on the Bible and their interpretation. The Bible has been twisted and rewritten partially to suit the purposes of the CC in particular. To suit the male power base and keep the poor ordinary people in their place. Christ was a champion of the poor and needy. He wasn’t interested in power, wealth or greed. Covering up malpractice and deviant sexual abuse would have been something he abhorred. What do you think he would have made of the Vatican with its obscene accumulation of treasures ( often stolen)? The men who strut around dressed up to the nines, smug in their superiority to the ordinary man and woman? Listening to confessions when they themselves are often the greatest sinners, or excusing and covering up the sins of their colleagues.

Look beyond the gloss and the liturgies to the ugliness below the thin veneer.

@MushMonster

What do you think of the Peace Giving at church? That is my favourite part

Appart of changing your believe in god, did you change any of your views on other things in life? Some examples have been mentioned

The peace giving is one of the things that I really like when I first went to Mass, I liked the fact that it made people interact with strangers as equals. I also really liked the bidding prayers, that the congregation was always turning itself outwards to pray about the wider issues of the world, rather than just being an insular community.

@RedPandaFluff

You're not answering the difficult questions, *@lightsandmirrors*. The systematic and large-scale child abuse cover-ups. The treatment of women. Human rights abuses. The obscene wealth of an organisation that continues to ask for money from its poorest members - I'll never forget my wee granny being harrassed for payment for the mention of my grandad's name at mass on the anniversary of his death, when she'd already paid it.

It's a disgraceful institution. There are some good people in there, but overall, it's rotten and corrupt. I'm glad that people are deserting it in droves and can only hope that even more do so in future.

I'm sorry if I haven't answered that question well enough. All I would say is that might be because corruption in the church was never really one of the aspects I struggled with when making the decision to convert.

Yes the church has done terrible, terrible things and I am sure that, to an extent, they continue to do so. However for me I can separate that from what the church teaches and the good that I personally have felt it done for me and what I have seen it do for others. Honestly that is how I feel and I can understand that others may struggle with that but that is my truthful answer.

@Vagaries

So your bland preference for the ‘something beautiful’ in the liturgical year trumps institutional corruption, sexism and the condoning and cover up of sexual abuse?

As above, its not that the beauty of the Mass etc etc. Makes covering up child abuse ok, I just feel I can separate the two.

It also seems true that covering up child abuse is an almost universal issue. Again that doesn't make it right, but it is far from a unique problem for the Catholic Church.

@mrwalkensir

how do you feel about "Christ" basically hijacking the whole Mithras thing, then the Roman Catholics completely taking on the Zeus/Sunday thing? And the massive money/power grab eg St Francis of Assisi (really obscene - have you visited the basilica?)

I have visited the basilica in Assisi actually, long before I converted. Can't say I know too much about the money and power grabbing involved though. But that does sound exactly like something people would do when given the opportunity. However, again corruption in the Church is not in itself evidence that the Church's teaching is wrong.

Interesting question re. The hijacking of previous traditions, have you read Hero with a Thousand Faces? I haven't read it but have read about it and it seems a similar concept to what you are saying. I would say because the same narrative pops up again and again doesn't mean its wrong. It means it has universal appeal. Taking on and altering other traditions makes sense when you are trying to create your own. I know that Jesus probably wasn't born on the 25th December, but that doesn't stop me enjoying celebrating it then and it doesn't effect the 'message' of the celebration either.

@Vagaries

But you’re not worried about delegating your understanding of key issues of life, the universe and everything to the ‘solid answers’ of an institution that has exercised such poor, corrupt, misogynist judgement?

No, I think if the teaching changed to something which I really could not reconcile with my conscience. Then I would have to consider moving away from the Church. But that hasn't happened yet

Do lifelong Catholics see you any differently, as a recent convert?

Did you feel welcomed when you approached (I assume) a priest and expressed your wish to be converted?

@Vagaries

Another cultural Catholic who finds it baffling why any person of average intelligence who has not been soaked in Catholicism from birth would actively choose to endorse a corrupt patriarchal institution which has been responsible for the sexual and economic abuse and detention of generations of women and children. (I make allowances to an extent for people of my parents’ generation, in whose psychological DNA It is.)

Why, if you were attracted to Christianity from having been an atheist, not choose a more liberal, progressive, egalitarian version, with a female priesthood or none, like Unitarianism or Quakerism?

Totally agree.

@RosyPickle

I converted too about ten years ago as a young adult, but have since fallen away. I struggled with all the extra beliefs one has to have - not necessarily saying everything has to be explicitly in the Bible for it to be true, but there are some teachings about eg Mary that, to be a Catholic in good standing, you have to accept - even though to me they're at best an 'added extra' and at worst a stumbling block. I'm not sure in the sense we now mean in the earliest days of Christianity. I think the catholic (as in universal) church as it was originally founded by the apostles can probably be found in many denominations as to my understanding it just means all followers of Christ. At first I liked the fact that all the teachings were laid out and therefore presumably reliable but after a while I started to feel coerced into accepting a lot of unnecessary stuff and not comfortable with the lack of freedom to make up my own mind.

Not really a question but just my thoughts and would be interested to hear yours.

I know what you mean about added extras. I wasn't keen on those things when I was first thinking about converting. I think you are right that a lot of bits are unnecessary, e.g. assumption of Mary. But I don't find them morally reprehensible either.

I agree that there are elements in other denominations which come very close, but for me they aren't the real cigar. None of them have the true presence of Christ in the eucharist and therefore for me would never come close enough.
As previously mentioned I do find the lack of freedom to make my own microdecisions on lots of different topics reassuring at the moment. Maybe in the future that will change as I grow older. I believe I am on a journey of faith so can only really speak for how I feel right now.

How do you reconcile men's natural gravity towards becoming Catholic priests or brothers when they're paedophiles? Have you ever watched this movie? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_for_a_Raggy_Boy

FWIW There is something mysteriously magically comforting about Catholism. Even in movies where exorcisms are required, people call on the Catholics rather than the vicar. I'm agnostic though due to paedophilia which was actively covered up and utterly rife within the Catholic church in particular. I was raised Catholic. I have my own rather tenuous faith but cannot in good conscience grace the Catholic Church with much of my presence as it is such an horrific institution of abominable cruelty.

Oh and the nuns were just as sadistic. What sort of religion or faith could breed so many cunts?

@TraderJoe

What are the sacrifices you have had to make? What do your family think? Do you have children? What have you taught them about religion?

I was living with my partner at the time. We stopped any kind of sexual contact beyond kissing and hugging until we got married which was about a year and a half after. Since then I haven't used contraception. I gave up my former lifestyle which was centred on me so, not going out and getting drunk to the point I would lose control, not spending all my money and time on me. Not huge sacrifices in the grand scheme of things but they were certainly difficult for me. Family think its all a bit weird, my mum is supportive. No one else really mentions it. I have a DS but he is still a baby so not taught him much yet! I would like to teach him to be open minded and to question things. I don't think I will regularly be taking him to Mass unless he decides to take his first communion. I would like him to attend a RC school and will be having him baptised. But want him to come to his own decisions that he can happily live with.

@sweetkitty

I’m an atheist married to a RC, ny children have been brought up RC although two have now chosen not to attend mass and are questioning their faith just now. I attend mass maybe 4 times a year sometimes more and always sit there thinking “really and not getting it” probably why I’m an atheist.

Anyway my point I have friends who are quite devout and practise NFP and give talks on it. To me how is NFP any different to using a condom or taking a pill? In NFP you are still deliberately preventing getting pregnant by only having sex during safe times, don’t see the difference between that and sticking a condom on really it’s still preventing. Why is one ok in the Catholic Church and the other not?

I think the “rules” were written by old men to control the poor and women and to breed more Catholics.

I also struggle to see a difference between NFP and barrier methods. I understand that the church teaches using the barrier method is wrong because you are always holding back something from your partner, not giving your full self to the other. But I'm not sure. Other forms of contraception I understand can affect fertilised eggs. Which is why I agree they are not compatible with the churches teachings.

I think @Vagaries has nailed it, for me - exactly how I feel, except better articulated! @lightsandmirrors I fully accept that you have the freedom and right to pursue any religion or spiritual practice you choose, but it disturbs me that you're so willing to separate out the unsavoury bits and put them aside for the convenience of "not having to think". That's . . . baffling. How can you disregard so much human suffering?!

Do you actually listen to the sermons or just tune out? My in-laws are Catholic and DH is technically a Catholic, although somewhat lapsed. I have attended mass with my in-laws and DH when he is being a good cultural catholic and listened to the sermons. I’ve never agreed with one yet. On questioning my in-laws about the sermon later, they admit they don’t listen. Same with DH. I’ve even attended a few masses in German as my in-laws don’t live in this country, despite knowing about 5 words in German I still try to listen to the sermon. From what I can make out, I still don’t agree with it. I look around the church now during sermon and everyone has a zoned out look. Which explains why nobody is standing up and shouting at the priest.

Do you feel like the Catholic Church is inclusive? Particularly before you were confirmed but presumably attending services. As someone who grew up in CofE, I find the Catholic Church horribly exclusionary. Sure, they like minorities if they are Catholic but it’s not welcoming to people outside the Catholic world. As I was confirmed in a CofE church I am unable to partake in mass at a Catholic Church, unless I want a blessing which I refuse on principle. The church I grew up was very inclusive, it’s a space for community and people of other denominations can attend services if they want a place of worship. The services will be CofE but members have been invited up to do their own prayers, sometimes in their first language.

Catholic mass is considered a sacrament (so something holy), and you need to have had first confession, first communion etc. to receive Communion (I assume that's what you mean about not being able to participate?) Catholicism is very ritualistic, so a free for all wouldn't work. Plus, people might start questioning the dogma from the pulpit

Sorry, my post was directed to RaspberryToupee

Two questions:

1. Why would you teach your son to question things if you value not having to think for yourself?

1. You've said there are no teachings you find "morally reprehensible." Given that many people do find the current teachings unconscionable, where would you draw the line? Am I right in thinking that you find it easier to justify things which negatively affect other people, so long as you and yours are ok?

Good for you. I conveyed from C of E 16 years ago. Best thing I've ever done.

FYI,
I believe that Abortion is murder. But I wouldn't judge anyone who had been raped or had a TFMR.

Contraception is fine by me. As is sex before marriage. As art if a long term serious relationship.

Gay Marriage, fine but not in a church. But they should offer a blessing.

Papal infallibility, no.

I studied theology of the body and don't agree with it. Nor do I believe that JP 2 is a saint.

I think I was at least 10 years old before I realised that during the sign of peace we were supposed to be saying 'peace be with you' and not 'bishoo wishoo' 😂

I also remember having Mass at school and watching the priest drink the wine and literally thinking there was blood in the cup. The worst thing was I wasn't even that bothered about it, I just thought it was normal, WTF!

Being so disappointed when making my first communion because they had said that the communion host thing is a wafer and I was imagining like an ice cream wafer, but actually it just tasted of cardboard and got stuck on the roof of my mouth.

And also, being made to be an altar server and getting bollocked by my parents each and every Sunday for messing around up at the altar during mass in full view of the congregation. And feeling so important getting to be the one who filled the little jugs with the water and the wine (which was actually Sherry!) But when not being an altar server trying to hide in the pew so that you wouldn't get picked to have to take up the offertory!

And the 'Gold Books' that we filled in at school leading up to first Holy communion, super exciting stuff!

Ah, I do have some good memories of my Catholic upbringing!

You mentioned you had been given opportunities to get involved in the life of the church- was it the cleaning or the flowers?

@Dancingwithdaftness yes I’m aware of that but it doesn’t stop it being less inclusionary. Actually the idea that Catholic’s believe that only holy acts can occur within the walls of their churches also annoys the hell out of me. It’s why BIL, who got married in a CofE church and divorced, is free to marry in the Catholic Church next time because it’s CofE - it never happened

Lol Raspberry, yes, my uncle (raised Catholic) had a child out of wedlock about 30 years ago. He never married the mother, but he couldn't get married to his new fiancée in the usual churches, only one would take in his bedeviled soul haha. His first son was a sin to be hidden in the church at his marriage. Certainly not allowed to participate. Believe me I hate the Catholic church and actively discourage my dc away from it, but they're in Catholic school and want to be included. My wise words fall on deaf ears when there's the lure of a fancy dress and loads of money and fuss coming your way. I'm happy enough with my rather errant agnostic view at the moment. I suffer from Catholic guilt around sex though so I really don't want that for my dc. That guilt may as well be as much from my dm as the church though. Either way, I'm fucked up about sex and enjoying it.