I'm a gypsyologist AMA

[Devlesko]

Just this really, anyone interested I'll answer if I can.

@Devlesko

Content Warning It's true, she did. Full of vitamins and minerals, usually ate this if they were hard up or sorry to say had trouble stealing a sheep. Cook in the oven rolled in clay. Then you just take the clay off, the prickles come off with the clay. They fed a whole village on this, I'm sure they were all starving for some reason, but can't remember dates off hand.

Oh wow, yeh, that’s the preparation method I’d had described - I’d always been suspicious that it was an urban myth!

I’ve a feeling I first came across it in an Enid Blyton book. Although it was unlikely to be described there as a positive thing, knowing her many prejudices!

Terralee

It was an invitation to a gypsy camp in the woods, no way
But, I bet it's beautiful and going as a tourist would be better.

Saucery
You are back, yeah!
For everyone but especially you I recommend charles Godfrey Leland. Lots available on kindle. They are all good but I recommend "Gypsy sorcery and fortune telling" it covers much more than the title suggests.

If anyone struggles to get a copy I do have a free download I got from somewhere but this site won't let me post it, so you'd have to trust me with an email.

The hedgehogs are true, but they are very much respected by Gypsies and of course they wouldn't eat them unless necessary.
Today it is unheard of as luckily our food is in plentiful supply.

My gr gr grandfather was written about in Bunyan's Tales.
He kept Hedgehogs under plant pots. One morning he got up and noticed his pots moved and the hedgehogs gone. He started to walk the village to retrieve them when he was stopped by the law and prosecuted for allowing his hedgehogs onto the public road.
When in front of the magistrate he was given a fine and when asked if there was anything he wanted to say, he said "Yes, sir, do I owe you anything for their keep?"

I’ve bought that for Kindle, thank you so much! I wonder if I will find some familiar things in there passed down from my older relatives? Even if not, I’m sure it will be interesting and you’re right, I wouldn’t necessarily have picked that title out as covering the history.

Near where I live there's a church in the woods, known locally as the Gypsy Church. It's little more than a corrugated tin shack, but holds services once a month or so. Are there lots of these around the country? I've heard that it was for the goodies/travellers to have somewhere to worship.

Not goodies; gypsies!

@SuperSange

Near where I live there's a church in the woods, known locally as the Gypsy Church. It's little more than a corrugated tin shack, but holds services once a month or so. Are there lots of these around the country? I've heard that it was for the goodies/travellers to have somewhere to worship.

This made me smile - had visions of Bill Oddie, Graeme Garden and Tim Brook-Taylor scurrying around! 😆

Fascinating thread though, OP. 🙂

I think the “ewww, gypsies eat hedgehogs!” has become part of the Othering of the Romani. Because in the past, people living off the land, whether moving round or not, would eat what they could. In living memory there are people who ate rabbits and game and what they could find on common (or not so common!) land. We’ve sanitised meat production and cooking away from the truth of it being a living creature that needs killing and cooking. Doesn’t really matter if it’s Mrs Tiggywinkle or not, does it?
You can see the Othering in the “Eastern Europeans Eating Our Swans” bollocks too. Nothing much changes, does it

@Saucery

I think the “ewww, gypsies eat hedgehogs!” has become part of the Othering of the Romani. Because in the past, people living off the land, whether moving round or not, would eat what they could. In living memory there are people who ate rabbits and game and what they could find on common (or not so common!) land. We’ve sanitised meat production and cooking away from the truth of it being a living creature that needs killing and cooking. Doesn’t really matter if it’s Mrs Tiggywinkle or not, does it? You can see the Othering in the “Eastern Europeans Eating Our Swans” bollocks too. Nothing much changes, does it

Absolutely! As a vegan I don't see the difference between eating a cow, a sheep, a hedgehog or a dog!

Indeed. There’s a mental block between species that I can recognise even as a non-vegan.

Encroaching urbanisation has done more damage to hedgehog populations than any historical eating patterns.

An very elderly relative born in rural Ireland talks about people eating hedgehogs by cooking them in clay and a local family caging blackbirds to eat.

She also talks about whole families dying of TB one by one over a year or 2, and children going barefoot to school.

Re the stopping education early... I’ve always assumed that a lot of that is to do with the sort of professions traditionally done?

As in, my stepdad (and plenty of other people) left school at 14 because he had the basics and anything more was considered unnecessary when you come from a family of crofters and fishermen.

In living memory there are people who ate rabbits

Well it was the starter in a posh restaurant I went to for my 50th.

@sashh

In living memory there are people who ate rabbits

Well it was the starter in a posh restaurant I went to for my 50th.

Yes, I did seem to imply it wasn’t common now! I meant like my friend’s Dad who walked in one afternoon with his gun over his shoulder (didn’t even know he had a gun and I’m damn sure my parents didn’t either!) and slapped a brace of rabbits on the table. That was unusual even in a semi-rural area in the 70s. My friend was really embarrassed he’d done that, I don’t think they wanted it to be common knowledge.

“I meant like my friend’s Dad who walked in one afternoon with his gun over his shoulder (didn’t even know he had a gun and I’m damn sure my parents didn’t either!) and slapped a brace of rabbits on the table. That was unusual even in a semi-rural area in the 70s.”

Um... it wasn’t that uncommon when I was a teenager in the 90’s...

Actually I’m not even semi-rural where I am now and I know of two people nearby with dogs to go lamping.

I’ll hold my hand up to a sheltered life, then

Fascinating topic.
Apologies if this has been asked but why are gypsies associated with psychic abilities?

Rabbit Stew
I'm not so keen and can't touch it now, but not due to anything grand, I just got sick of it, growing up.
We'd usually eat it at once a week, then there were chickens and of course my favourite I still eat today Joey Gray. A bit like a fried breakfast but cooked in tomatoes, no egg in it, obviously.
Eggs were common for tea, like the advert "There was always an egg each for tea".
Then of course if you were visiting relatives by the sea there was fresh fish, not saying you couldn't have this any other time from a fish monger though.

That's right concerning the education. It used to be that you followed the family trade, but now we can't travel anymore and cultures have changed many travellers want more out of life.
That's why some stay on for secondary, it's still not the majority though.
Of those I know on sites their dc will be lucky to continue through secondary at all.
I think those in bricks n mortar or static sites have greater opportunities, than those on sites who have to keep moving.

We made the decision to have bricks n mortar for the time we aren't travelling with work, it enabled our dc to attend school when not travelling, we could register for healthcare, and their outcomes were far better. They were able to continue to further and higher ed if they wanted, one went through uni, the other through college.

It might be hard for some to believe this but we have a dc boarding at school too. So, we really are all a mixed bag, the same as the rest of society.

@Saucery

I’ll hold my hand up to a sheltered life, then

To be fair, it might be area dependant... I grew up in a very small town in the middle of just about nowhere on the west coast of Scotland - and I’m pretty sure not a huge amount of people were I am now realise the lamping is happening, I’m fairly sure they think they’re just walking their many lurchers, lol - I only know they’re not because I used to walk my behaviourally challenged dog at midnight...

@Devlesko

That's right concerning the education. It used to be that you followed the family trade, but now we can't travel anymore and cultures have changed many travellers want more out of life. That's why some stay on for secondary, it's still not the majority though. Of those I know on sites their dc will be lucky to continue through secondary at all. I think those in bricks n mortar or static sites have greater opportunities, than those on sites who have to keep moving.

We made the decision to have bricks n mortar for the time we aren't travelling with work, it enabled our dc to attend school when not travelling, we could register for healthcare, and their outcomes were far better. They were able to continue to further and higher ed if they wanted, one went through uni, the other through college.

It might be hard for some to believe this but we have a dc boarding at school too. So, we really are all a mixed bag, the same as the rest of society.

Oh I know there are issues with access to things like education and medicine that happen with a traditional travelling lifestyle...

But yeah, I’ve just always assumed that the other aspect of it is - how useful are those last few years of education when you could be learning a trade that doesn’t need that education? I know that was how people felt about lots of rural jobs not that long ago, now not so much, but even 20 or 30 years ago. They felt those last few years of school were a waste of time.

This has been the most educational and interesting thread I have read on MN for a long time. Thank you so much for starting it devlesko.

I am ashamed to say that I occasionally used the word chav in the past without knowing what it really is. I will never do that again.

I am a keen family historian and am always amazed how often oral histories turn out to be true (sadly not in my family though - we have been cheated out of our rightful inheritance many times apparently, though what inheritance there ever was from such a poor, feckless bunch of ancestors as mine I can’t say!).