I’m a farmer, ask me anything

[AskAFarmer]

As title! :)

Me and dp don't come from farming families. Are we mental to think we could eventually be farmers??!

Not mental. But you will need a lot of money, a very good work ethic and a fair amount of knowledge.

If you read upthread I did a breakdown of the minimum costs needed to get into sheep farming.

Don’t be fooled into thinking you can survive with less than around 500 sheep - some tv programmes show a very unrealistic view of farming, with smallholders with 150 ewes of varying weird breeds fucking about with 20 pet lambs and driving a brand new truck. These people are playing at it, and will all have either family money or a fuckton of debt behind them.

Do all your sums again and again. It can be done, but it’s not easy.

If not, buy or rent some land. Definately not looking at it as an only income, DP is intending to continue his job (works 9-3.15 4 days a week but pays very well) so he can cover our living costs at least!

Ah, that’s slightly different.
If there’s someone funding the animals, then there’s less pressure. BUT - you will not make money from a few sheep on a smallholding. You just won’t. So it will very much be the job funding your new lifestyle.

Having said that, many people do do this and it works for them. But be prepared to live on one salary with a lot more costs than you had before.

What sort of acreage/how many sheep were you thinking?

Totally agree on food labelling standards, they really don’t help.

I have another question. Are you obsessed with the weather, or is that just the arable farmers I know, who seem to exist in a perpetual state of wanting whatever weather is not currently happening?

Hello.

I know you're a sheep farmer but what do you know about Pig farming and the welfare of pigs on UK farms?
You often hear horror stories about how pigs are kept but you have said that our standards are pretty high in the UK?

Also,do you watch Countryfile? We live in a city but love to watch it.

Judging on the fact that round here the average farm for let is 100 acres. We would work up to aroubd the 5/600 mark. We have capital to put down and fully expect to not make any money for a few years. Though on the plus side we should save the cost of renting our house and the £500 a month we spend on livery for my horse and my daughters ponies!

But obviously ill know more when i start at college. We are very lucky to have an excellent agricultural college with a 230 hectare working farm right in our doorstep.

I may well hate it!

Loved reading this thread and it dispels many preconceptions. You write so well OP.
I live in France. Judging what I see around me, standards are much lower. Huge industrial arable fields with a token and alienated hedge in the middle of it all. Constant spraying and a fast turnaround of crops. Next doors cattle broke into our garden to drink from our pool as they were so thirsty- no water despite me calling the Gendarmerie three times. Plus no shade on 35+ degrees.
No utopia that's for sure.

valkarie I can only speak as a non organic diary farmer, but no, organic does not mean free range. Many organic diary herds are large businesses (500+ cows) that are housed inside all year round. They are treated with the same medicines as non organic cows, they just have longer withdrawal periods for certain drugs. Their feed will be organic but their lives will be very similar to non organic cows.

Organic animals will be fed organically produced feed as long as it can be sourced - if there is a shortage they can be fed conventional forage which may or may not have had chemicals applied. Welfare overrides organic requirements at the end of the day.

Shocked to see farmers peddling such blatant misinformation about Organic standards!?

Zero grazing is BANNED by the soil assoc.! Organic garantees grazing for dairy cattle.

Soil Association aren't the only organic control body though. Different ones will have different standards.
If people want high welfare produce, organic certification isn't necessarily the best way to go about it - look for Pasture For Life, FRee Range Dairy etc.

Can you point me to the organic body which allows zero grazing?

Here's an organic standards table.
organicrules.org/custom/differences.php?id=2abi
Pigs & poultry do not require 'grazing' - by which I assume they don't need to be free range.
Dairy cattle have to be out grazing as a minimum for less than half of the grazing season, so that could be 3 months out of 12.
Zero grazing systems I'm familiar with only house cattle during their high yield cycle, so keeping a dairy cow housed for nine months out of 12 could well be within EU organic certification standards, and also be called 'zero grazing'.
To be honest, in high standard modern systems, housed cattle can be in better health than outdoor cattle, and cause less pollution.

SOPA do not allow 'zero grazing' but neither do they specify a proportion of time when the cow needs access to grass (3.3.2) www.sopa.org.uk/assets/0000/1367/SOPA_OrganicProducerStandardsIssue4_2012.pdf whereas Free Range Dairy do set very clear standards www.freerangedairy.org/frequently-asked-questions/

In practice I agree it's probably true that no organic livestock systems are housed all year round, I don't think that would be allowed, but there is a lot of variation.
And neither is it true that a housed cow is always an unhappy cow.

I dunno, i've worked with cows housed for their entire lives and it was uncomfortable to see. Sometimes they want to be out of the weather, but i dont think thats justification for housing year round - they also want to be on grass in summer, so why isnt it respected the other way round?

Do free range dairy have rules on chem and drug use?
Pasture for life's standards dont make much sense as they allow non pasture feed such as turnips, so erasing the environmental benefits of insisting on pasture in the first place

E.g: they all have drawbacks, but providing incentives for making those steps is vital.

Thanks for a great thread! I'm a city slicker so had no idea about the crows .

I can't find any other requirements from FRD so it really is about the milk from grazed grass angle.
I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate here, I would also rather see cows having access to fields and do love the spring turnout sight, cows love a change of scenery! But the assumption that housed livestock are lower welfare is not absolute.
I think grazing fodder beet is fine, it's a good way of utilising field rotation, getting livestock into an arable field and putting on dung, reducing pressure on slurry storage over winter, and doing over-wintering. Productive intensive grassland needs reseeding, so mangels are a good break.
With the ever-present proviso of 'but only if it's done well', of course!

Interesting thread, where I live I'm surrounded by "poor" farmers!! Can I ask what your annual income is?

I’m really enjoying this thread and it’s answered a lot of my questions over higher welfare meat and oddly enough sheep shearing! DH works alongside a farmer (he rents land from him for his own business) and the whole process fascinated me. He’s (the farmer) not a big talker though so cant really ask my burning questions

Please keep posting OP!

Great thread.

I’d love for my son as I to go work on a farm as a holiday just too see what it’s like, the work involved and for something different really. Is this a possibility or is it just too much hassle for farmers to do?

Grazing fodder beet can be 'fine', depending on which angle you're coming at it. For soil and wildlife, not so much - it's adding to tillage, erosion, compaction, quite possibly chemical and fertiliser use etc, when really grazing livestock only need permanent pasture, which yields much more biodiversity.

And neither is it true that a housed cow is always an unhappy cow.

I don’t agree, I don’t think any animal should spend its entire life indoors (I include house cats in this).

Can I ask what your annual income is?

You can ask

Not mega megabucks, but we get by well enough.

I’m really enjoying this thread and it’s answered a lot of my questions over higher welfare meat and oddly enough sheep shearing!

Any shearing questions, just ask away

Grazing fodder beet can be 'fine', depending on which angle you're coming at it.

We don’t use it any more, makes the ewes prolapse more.

That's interesting, is it the fibre?
There's something else that it makes cattle prone to, picking up bacteria from the soil. I've googled mud fever but I'm getting my large herbivores mixed up!