I'm an evangelical Christian - ask me anything

[Insieme]

I'm happy to answer questions, though I'm not interested if people just come on to be insulting.

I can only give my views and talk about what I believe - evangelicalism covers a broad spectrum of beliefs and I can only speak for myself.

Ask away!

I am agnostic leaning more to the side of atheism but was brought up in a very devout Christian setting.

I believe 100% that there is no god the father and I have huge issues with the belief that there is. E.g. many Christians talk about how when bad things happen this is because God created us all with free will and as such it is human nature that bad things will happen. Fair enough. However, when good things happen the same Christians who will swear blind that the bad things are not down to God will praise the lord for the good he has done and all the credit will go to him. No Christian has ever been able to explain this to me, because in my mind you can’t have it both ways. If the bad is down to free will then so is the good and God in fact does not use power over us in any way shape or form. But conversely, if the good is down to God then so is the bad, surely? So which is it? You can’t just dismiss the bad and embrace the good in God’s name.... or you have to admit that if God does good then he does bad as well and why is that?

Also, if a human parent treated their children in the way that God treats his we would disown them. Yet people worship god out of ... fear of what will happen if they don’t?

I will honestly say that I find collective Christians some of the most intolerant judgemental people I have ever come across. This is of course sad because on an individual level most are of course not like that, but as with anything it is the loudest voice which is generally heard and as such I will never even contemplate considering a Christian existence.

PolytheneSam its of course possible that if I lived in Saudi Arabia I might be a Sunni Muslim. You're right that I almost certainly couldn't be a Christian because it is illegal to be one in Saudi Arabia. Having said that, God calls the people he chooses to call, so who knows? But I don't think all religions are the same / all filling the same need. Christianity does claim to be the only way to God.

At least in the UK, there is genuine choice and freedom to be any religion or none.

And the second coming talk is IMO incredibly hypocritical. All the talk of how people should be preparing and looking for signs so they can prepare and live a certain way so as to be embraced by God. But IMO you need to be living a certain way anyway not just because you believe something might happen and you’re living the good life just in case?

I do good by my fellow man because that’s the person I am, not because of the fear of what I might miss out on. If that’s the way people are living then they’re doing it for the wrong reasons and God will see that anyway.

What does 'being saved' actually mean.

Why (and this is something I have seen on U TV so may not apply to you) do some Christians hold hands to say grace/a prayer before a meal?

Briefly. God sets a standard for moral behaviour. Use the 10 commandments as an example. Everyone without exception, has failed to keep that perfect standard. Everyone has spoken in anger, or lied, or thought something unfair about another person. We've all failed.

Do you really think the 10 commandments portray moral behaviour? What is a perfect standard that includes slavery?

Why is there no command against rape?

Why do you think the Jews spent 40 years wandering in the desert to travel 380 miles? That's about 0.2 of a mile a day.

Lookmore why does God put such importance on believing in him?

Because God created us to worship him. In the end, that's the main thing he asks of us. Of course if he were a person that would be arrogant, but he is God, not a fallible human being.

Someone asked (sorry, I can't remember who) about why God would turn someone away from heaven who was a good person in general but just happened not to believe. God would say that believing is the vital thing. Without that, anything good we might have done isn't good enough. And I have to ask, if someone doesn't believe in God, why would they want to spend eternity in heaven with him? Surely they would rather be rejected?

Summer I agree with you that people should not be looking for signs of the second coming. God has said it will be a sudden event at a time we don't know, so you are exactly right that we should just be living the best life we can in the meantime and not trying to predict it. Some Christians do get very worked up about it (I'm tempted to say obsessed) but I don't think that is right.

Sashh lots of questions there! I'll get back to answer you later - I have to go and do stuff now.

You are right it would be arrogant in a human, but you believe being a supernatural it's fair game to be arrogant?

In answer to why we non believers would want to stay in eternity in heaven - only because the alternative would be burning torture, I think you believe those are the two options?

Do you ever read back what you've written and wonder about how much sense it actually all makes? Not meaning that to sound rude, it's something I've wondered about religious people in general.

No I think that the idea of spending an eternity with a load of worshippers would actually be my idea of hell and as such I don’t seek entry into Heaven or believe that I should be given entry into Heaven because I don’t believe.

I agree summer^

And actually, I don’t believe I will be going to hell either because I don’t believe in that way of thinking.

What I do have a problem With is that people are essentially being scared into having to believe a certain way because they have a belief in a higher being,and that belief being challenged in such a way as to say that you must believe a certain way in an entity whose existence is to be worshipped or you cannot aspire to ever lasting life.

I think it’s one thing to have a quiet belief in a God, but I wonder what is missing in the lives of people who feel the need to be so dependent on the idea of having to worship or face an eternal wrath.

Bechet, in answer to your question about what I now feel free from - I can't do better than SummerGems in her post at 11.26. That.

Hi Insieme, thank you so much for your reply.

When you say you don't believe in Jesus, can I ask whether you mean you don't believe he existed, or you don't believe he is the son of God? Two very different ideas! I hope you don't mind me asking.

I'm really not sure! I have tried writing this post out but confused even myself! I do believe Jesus was/is the son of God. However, I do also have trouble believing he existed (Son of God or not.) Sorry, that's not very clear but I can't really put it into words. I think what I'm trying to say is, if he existed, then yes, he is the son of God. But I've also spent so long not believing he existed because of fear of the second coming.
I hope that makes some kind of sense!

Summer I can only say that I have never known anyone be told they MUST believe in something. There is no way someone can be forced to believe, and that would be both counter productive and abusive. I would not stay long in any church that did that!

It is possible to say, in so many words, "This is what the Bible says," and ask people to respond. Most will reject it, a few may be interested and decide it makes sense to them, and they will believe. But if a person thinks God is unfair or evil, or whatever, they can just ignore it all. Their choice entirely.

I do understand that some people feel a family pressure to believe, but that's true of many belief systems in life, even political views.

73kitty that actually does make sense! I'd agree that it's very reasonable to say that if Jesus exists then he's the son of God, and if he doesn't exist, then it doesn't matter who he's supposed to be!

There is more independent evidence that Jesus existed than there is for most characters in the ancient world, Julius Caesar being an example. Yet no one seriously doubts that Julius Caesar lived.

The difference is that if Jesus was real, then that affects people's lives now, and many people are a bit uncomfortable about having to decide what they think about him.

Maybe you need to settle in your own mind what you think about Jesus' life before you can settle the issue of whether Christianity matters at all.

Lookmore but if you're a non-believer you don't believe hell exists. Or heaven either, presumably. So it doesn't matter at all whether God would think you were good enough, or whether it's 'fair'.

Can I ask you, do you think when we die that's the end? Nothing. I don't want to make assumptions about what you think if I can help it.

If I'm wrong, and there's no God, and no afterlife, then I'll find out when I'm dead (but won't ever know that consciously, I suppose). I won't have regrets about the way I've lived my life. I've tried to help people where I can, I've loved my family and friends, I've done a little good. I'm happy to believe in God, and I'm not doing it primarily to get into heaven anyway, but it seems I can't really lose.

Sashh lots to answer here! I'll split it up a bit.

Being saved just means that Jesus accepts the consequences /punishment for the things I've done wrong. I could compare it in a small way with someone stepping in and offering to pay a fine I might incur driving, say. They aren't obliged to pay it, I am. But if they offer, that's very kind and generous, and I can accept that if I choose.

On a larger scale, Jesus paid the price for everything we have done wrong. If I accept his kind gift, then that's 'being saved' (from the punishment / consequences).

You ask about people saying grace / giving thanks. Some Christian families do this. It's a way of regularly remembering that God provides for us (in as much as crops grow, we have employment to earn money to buy food etc). I think it's pretty rare to hold hands though! Maybe that's a cultural thing (American?).

As a family we usually say grace very briefly before each evening meal. I'm not obsessive about it though. God knows if we're thankful whether we say it or not!

Sashh about the Ten Commandments. The commandments are not the sum total of all the rules and guidance God gives us. I used them as an example because most people are familiar with them.

When you say the commandments condone slavery, I assume you mean the mention of making sure your slave does no work on the sabbath?i don't think that's in any way saying slavery is good. It's dealing with a situation that unfortunately existed in those days, and telling people to treat their slave as a human being, and be considerate of them. It's not saying, "get yourself a slave, it's a great system!"

Most people now interpret that as meaning Christian employers should not force their workers to work 7 days a week, or excessive hours, but should be considerate, pay fairly and not take advantage of people.

Rape is not specifically mentioned in the commandments. But the commandments to avoid adultery is about living a life of sexual restraint; having sex only with the person you are married to. And husbands are told elsewhere to love their wives sacrificially. So there's no room there for the exploitation of women, demanding sex from anyone, even your wife, or indeed rape. The commandments are broader than they appear; Jesus said that anyone who looked on a woman lustfully was potentially breaking that commandment.

Thanks for your reply.

Is being saved a way of morally acquitting your responsibility to a long dead prophet?

Even the statement 'looks on a women lustfully' is suggesting women are in the wrong.

I think it's pretty rare to hold hands though! Maybe that's a cultural thing (American?).

It's quite common in the US for families that say grace before a meal to hold hands.

Luna no, it's not.

Skye I don't agree with that at all. If a man is looking at someone lustfully, that's entirely his responsibility. The woman is not to blame at all.

I neglected to mention that there's no theological rational for holding hands during the prayer that I know of. It simply makes a circle around the table and emphasizes the unity of the family and guests if any.

I don't see your point either Skye. The woman may be completely unaware of the man looking or what he is thinking. His feelings are his alone.

Yes that's correct, I don't believe in either heaven or hell and so if I'm right it doesn't matter. If you are right then it does matter to me and everyone else as its their existence evermore!

Yes I believe that when we die it's just nothing and if that's the case you won't know you were wrong as you'll know nothing. Believe me, having lost my dad recently I'd love to think there's something else, but if I'm honest it's just not rational to me and if there was an afterlife I'd really hope it's not the judgemental Christian god we are talking about and something more free and equal.