I'm an evangelical Christian - ask me anything

[Insieme]

I'm happy to answer questions, though I'm not interested if people just come on to be insulting.

I can only give my views and talk about what I believe - evangelicalism covers a broad spectrum of beliefs and I can only speak for myself.

Ask away!

So gay people are broken and "same-sex attraction is a dysfunctional form of idolatry".

That still doesn't explain who exactly it harms. Seems to me like people are just conviniently interpreting the Bible to justify their existing prejudices.

Hi Insieme, thank you for the thread. I hope I haven't missed this as I have mostly only read your answers through the thread.
I believe in God. I have trouble believing in Jesus (Wow, it feels wrong to even type that!) Because to believe in Jesus I have to believe in the second coming. Now, granted I read Revelations a long time ago, I remember the second coming being all about 'Rivers of blood', hell and damnation. How can Christians look forward to that? Have I interpreted it wrong? I'd love to hear your thoughts on it please.

Segmentation everyone is broken - gay, straight, or anything else.

73kittycat73 The Second Coming is a difficult topic. Revelation is written in highly pictorial language and is in many ways poetic as well as prophetic. There are almost as many views on what Jesus's reappearance will look like, as there are Christians!

But I wouldn't say its overall themes are hell and damnation. Rather they are victory and joy.

There are prophecies in there about what might happen before Jesus returns. Things like war, famine and death. Some Christians get very hung up on trying to work out if that's happening now, or not. But God tells us we won't know the date of his return, so that seems a bit pointless.

Then, at some point, Jesus will return, in power. In contrast to his first coming, he will be universally recognised. Everyone on earth will see him and worship him. All the dead people will be resurrected too. Then he will take anyone who believed in him to heaven, for all eternity.

Some churches think there will be a period (often 1000 years), either before or immediately after the return, when Christians will reign with Jesus in a new earth.

The pictorial language in Revelation is difficult and disturbing. I don't pretend to understand it all, or even a fraction of it. But Jesus's second coming is an occasion for joy - it's a sign that he has won out against evil; and death, disease and suffering with be at an end for anyone who worships him. There's also a beautiful description of heaven (again, probably not to be taken literally) near the end.

That said, there is definitely something negative in there for people who don't believe - they will be separated from God forever.

When you say you don't believe in Jesus, can I ask whether you mean you don't believe he existed, or you don't believe he is the son of God? Two very different ideas! I hope you don't mind me asking.

Insieme, your answers have been polite and respectful and this is an interesting thread. I was immersed in evangelicalism when I was growing up. I am now happily exvangelical, though getting to this point has been a long process.

What I can't get past with evangelical Christianity is how authoritarian it is, and how hostile to critical thinking. Trying to fit myself into an evangelical mold was denying my true self. There are so many things I can see clearly now that I'm free of it.

I am well familiar with most of the points that have been presented here by OP and other evangelicals. I've come across John Piper. But I have never before heard the theory that homosexuality is an extreme form of self-love, as Piper suggests in the link posted upthread. Just when you think you've heard everything...

I do appreciate that I have not read the entire thread and sorry, my issue is with God in the bible being a creator. I just think that having a male creator in sense of birthing a world makes no sense at all.

Whirlytastic “There are so many things I can see clearly now that I'm free of it.”

Can you say what it is that you can see clearly now?

@insieme I have read the whole thread, and thank you.

I am an atheist. I grew up in a Christian community but I became agnostic in my teens, then atheist in my 20s. Most of my family are agnostic or atheist now.

I was once told by a priest on Twitter that not bringing up my daughter in a faith was the equivalent of neglect.

Like you I struggle with the Big Bang etc, and my daughter asked me, what was there before? When I said, nothing, she persisted in saying, yes, but what is nothing? I said that even the greatest physicists don't know. There might have been something, or nothing at all. We just don't know.

Whilst science cannot explain everything do you wonder that Creationist theory makes explaining the beginnings of the Universe a bit simplified, wrapped up and tied with a bow? Shouldn't the point of human endeavour be to find out with evidence how life began? And why? I mean, that's where physics and philosophy collide, I suppose.

I am fine with the concept of Nothing. I can see why some need answers. My daughter is Wiccan, by the way.

On other matters, how does your congregation know for absolute sure that gay members of your flock are celibate? I cannot imagine they are surveilled 24/7. I am always suspicious of anyone who says they have stayed celibate, as it's a natural human urge. Therefore, why did God make them gay with urges only for Him to deny them? Seems an odd set of circumstances to me.

I also struggle with a loving God punishing his followers for supposed sins. It sounds abusive to me. Love me, worship me, but if you put a foot wrong I will punish you, and when you die you will go to Hell. Hm. It doesn't leave much room for the flaws of human nature does it? Why create humans with flaws in the first place? Must humanity constantly struggle to be as perfect as God? I therefore reject God as perfect. He is as flawed as humanity.

I think that most humans aim to be good. It's a basic aim, with or without religion. If I was run over by a car, I would expect other humans, religious or not, to ring an ambulance and attempt first aid. We know that adultery is wrong, we know stealing is wrong, and so most humans don't do these things. It depends on upbringing, certainly, and environmental factors, how willing you are to help others, but we all have in-built morals. So I reject religion on those grounds too. My family, my community, my peers, my work and life experiences inform my morals instead.

Is it hard being Christian in a country that is becoming increasingly secular and atheist?

Luna Lots of great questions there! I'll break them up over more than one reply because otherwise I'll forget some of them.

You asked how I / my church can know that the gay members are celibate. We don't, and I wouldn't expect to know for certain. No one 'checks up' on anyone else. Equally, they don't know I'm faithful to my husband, or that I'm not shoplifting, or committing any other sin. That's between the individual and God. But generally, if someone says they are trying to live in obedience to what God wants, we give them all the support and encourage we can, and let them get on with life. It is in no way the church's job to police what its members do.

I suppose the exception would be someone who said, for example, they were faithful to their spouse, but then left them to live with someone else. Then someone probably would query what was going on, but hopefully out of concern and love, not out of a desire to judge.

Luna you also asked why God made people with flaws, and also why God makes some people gay.

God made us all with free will, so we have choices. Our flaws are in many cases the result of our choices, though not always.

The story of Adam and Eve and the serpent in the Garden of Eden is told to help us understand about human nature. It's a picture of what people are like. Adam and Eve are told they can eat anything they choose, except from one particular tree. They are content with that for a while, but then get round to wondering what that fruit would taste like? Why shouldn't they eat that too? It looks so good. God must just be trying to keep something good from them. Let's try it!

And so they break the only rule there is at that point.

The point of the story is that we all want to do what WE think ifs right. We don't want some God telling us what is best fro us. Our nature is to want to be in charge ourselves. God lets us choose how to behave. He doesn't force anyone to believe in him or obey the laws he made afterwards to keep us safe.

So he didn't make our flaws, but he allows them.

Luna I agree with you that physics and philosophy collide when we start to think about the Big Bang and what came before. Yes, it's the job of scientist to work out how. I'm frustrated that they can't explain how nothingness came to explode into life. Perhaps one day they will, but science is imperfect and we don't have that answer yet.

But I think the creation story is about WHY nothingness became life on a small planet somewhere in the universe. And I think that's in many ways a more interesting thought.

And to answer your final question, yes, I do sometimes find it hard to live as a Christian in an increasingly secular world. I'm only human and it's not always easy to live a life that daily defies the culture all around us. However, it does mean I have to think through why I believe what I do. There can be no blind acceptance of belief by me when I'm likely to be questioned / laughed at / insulted at any time!

Just to say though, I have found this thread largely constructive (and very interesting!) which encourages me that it is possible to have a polite debate without falling out. Thank you to everyone who has done that.

Skye I did say in an earlier answer that I don't believe God is male in the sense that men are male. He has the qualities of both male and female, so I see no conflict with a creator God.

Whirlytastic Evangelicalism should not be harshly authoritarian. That's not the right role for the church. It should be supportive of people as they journey through life and attempt to live for God.

I find authority difficult. I think that's partly personality. I hate being told what to do or think. But God doesn't work against our personalities. For me, I have to work out what I think is right, in the light of what God has said. Sometimes ta5 means I have to give up something I'd like to hold on to. Or I have to start doing something I'd rather not bother with. But that's between me and my conscience. The church should not be imposing that on me.

Fortunately the church I belong to has a supportive ethos rather than a repressive one.

Do you see that it’s problematic for people that you equate gay couples having sex with you not being faithful to your husband or shoplifting?

Do you have an opinion on Lilith? I think everyone should know more about Liliths story!

Also, another one I struggle with is how humanity lived for thousands and thousands of years not worshipping God or Jesus and that fact just makes me wonder if the people before knew more.

Thanks for answering.

Rowena I haven't equated them. They are different examples of choices people may make that break God's instructions to us. I'm not saying they are the same, or equivalent.

To be clear, again, I am not saying that being homosexual is wrong. But God does say that homosexual acts are wrong. I often wish he didn't say that, but I can't deny it's written there in the bible. People are of course very free to disagree with the Bible.

Skye I have read the story of Lilith. I don't really have a view on it though. It's a Jewish myth and I don't think it has anything particular to say to me in my life now.

Fair enough :-)

I watched a programme that about the female disciples and it was a huge eye opener about how much of a role they would have had and how much had almost been written out of history.

My mum is an evangelical Christian and she attends an inclusive church with several gay members.

She told me her church references several bible passages to reflect what they feel is a “justification” for their inclusion policy, those that show ‘breaking the law’ can be done to fulfil a higher/better purpose. They specifically rely on Luke 13: 10-17, with the same principle in Mark 2: 23-28, and John 5 first few verses.

Have you come across this/these before in the context of inclusivity?

I stopped attending church because of the gay marriage debate. My view is that if we are to take Jesus at his word and are in a loving, secure relationship recognised by law, how can we deny our gay neighbour the same right?

Had you been born in Jeddah Saudi Arabia your post would have likely been "I'm a Sunni Muslim ask me anything".

Have you ever considered that if you had been born in another place or era you'd believe just as strongly in another set of god or gods?

Does this bother you or are you in the humans have to believe in something camp?

Shockers I've already said I am broadly in favour of gay marriage being legal.

if you are right, presumably the rest of us are stuffed on judgement day?

nobody ever gives me an answer to that one.

Sorry Insieme, that wasn’t a criticism of your personal views.

So really us nonbelievers have to hope we are alive during the second coming, so we can have a chance to change our mind, otherwise we are screwed. Totally unfair, if it was to be true. Why does God place such an importance on us believing in him? I'd hope that if I'm wrong and I die and reach the pearly gates that I'd be judged on who I am and how I've lived my life. If he can condemn otherwise good people to an eternity in hell just because they didn't believe in him, well, that's not a very nice, good, fair god is it?