NHS bans transwomen from female space

Not new. The previous version is still available here https://qna.files.parliament.uk/qna-attachments/1353663/corrected/Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019%20%281%29%20%281%29.pdf and that text appears on p6.

FWS 3 took this into account and set out that it may not be appropriate for a transwoman to be in the male general prison population. However, it went on to say putting them in women’s prisons was not permitted so the SPS needed a different solution for vulnerable transwomen.

You’re right. Perhaps imbecile would have been more accurate?

I need to file mine down so it’s tiny enough

You know that space does not necessarily refer to a physical room, right?

The claim was reported - but there was nothing more than the Baroness' claim in the House of Lords. No hospital was ever named and no records exist to support what she claimed happened. That's despite her claiming that the hospital admitted it - but nothing came forward in a mass FOI request from all NHS trusts.

Why are you claiming she said something that she didn’t?

I find it amusing that the people so determined that a TIM is a woman can never explain why these males should be included in female spaces and others excluded. It’s a bit like flat earthers. They “know” the earth is flat despite all scientific proof, but can’t explain why.

What did you mean by 'their spaces' if not physical space?

Exactly.

Ooh good point. Mine might be a bit large there….

No-one has ‘gone all the way’ or anything even remotely close.

Individuals who have altered their secondary sexual characteristics through hormone treatment and surgery have, at very best, altered their appearance to imitate more successfully a member of the opposite sex. Nothing has been ‘reassigned’ it’s just been altered, removed or added - there is no surgery going that can turn a functional bit of male anatomy into a functional bit of female anatomy,

Biological sex, however, is dictated at a cellular level by chromosomes expressed in every single one of the millions upon millions of the cells in the human body. A man has male lungs, male heart, male liver, male bones, male skin - male every single organ including a male brain. And the same for women.

the fact that changing only those parts of the body relating to physical appearance and sexual function is regarded as a proxy for an entire change of sex tells us a lot about the motivation for the change. There needs to still be actual women, (distinct from TIM) for men to have something to want to look like ( I don’t see anyone campaigning for MtF lung transplants or kidney transplants to be more ‘female’ - it only seems to be the bits that alter appearance which matter, which is odd if the driver is an innate feeling of being female?) it’s almost like the innate feeling is of wanting to look female rather than be female…

(And about the inability of many humans to hold in their mind the two distinct meanings of the word sex - sex as what we are, and sex as what we do.)

You'll need to explain that one I'm afraid.

No need, she’s already challenged you herself, you misunderstood as I said.

Never have the times been sadder.

M&S should do a range of Big Girl Pants in a choice of pastel pink and blue or rainbow colours for all those adversely affected by today's news, because it's time to put them on.

Do you think that’s why the increased scolding at the moment? Misplaced trauma reaction?

As I said, laws on assault and rules on consent to treatment - patients can refuse consent to treatment by any HCP for any reason.

In England there are also specific rights to request same sex care set out in the NHS Constitution https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-nhs-constitution-for-england I don't know whether Scotland has similar.

They absolutely should. I hope you’re listening M&S!

Yes there are similar guidelines. Unfortunately it doesn't mean that all men will adhere to them- as Upton demonstrated in his statement.

This is excellent news.
I am looking forward to my hospital communications team ensuring this important change to practice is widely circulated in the weekly newsletter or on the log in screen. There are frequently large trans awareness month / trans day of remembrance banners on the log in screens and the (illegal) transgender equality policy was much publicised in newsletters a year or two ago.

(I’ll be astonished if they do!)

Yes, I've now checked and it's gone gone gone.

Accommodation for trans identifying patients is now covered in section 4, and removes all the bits about choice according to how they identify, and about 'gender variant children'. Accommodation by biological sex is given as the default option, with single-occupancy rooms as an alternative if available and if necessary for the privacy, dignity and safety of all patients - not only the trans one.

This clause is for staff changing rooms, not for patients.

That’s great.

This is clearly a very inaccurate statement.

Sport is a very obvious case where identifying a class is not done to ‘abolish it’. I think you are now posting sound good soundbites that really don’t stand up to any depth of analysis.

I think it's important to remember that when they are talking about male/female 'wards' they are actually talking about bays. A single ward may have, say, 4 bays. They can designate 2 female bays and 2 male bays. As long as they provide toilet facilities in a single room that can be locked, there is no mixed sex breach if the bays are single-sex. Of course, most patients are able to walk around the ward, so there is nothing to stop a man walking into the female bay or a woman walking into a male bay.