"We" can always tell

I disagree with your framing of women considering that someone reported as a "woman" may in fact be male because we know know this sometimes happens as "poor behaviour". I consider your framing to be manipulative and that your holding that view exhibits bias about the value of women's own needs, rights and social identity.

You, of course, do not have to agree.

As you will of course know from reading this thread, I have made no bones that the behaviour of the people who actually harassed the victim's family was deeply shitty.

But those are different people.

You are condemning women as abusers simply for reacting rationally to the knowledge that sometimes people reported as women are male.

It's not manipulative. It's the reason that I, personally, disagree. We don't have to always agree with each other.

I don't think blaming others for your own poor behaviour is ever acceptable.

So, anyone on here who continuously posts supporting the repression of women and their rights / the takeover of women's spaces / supporting the misogynistic culture of male bullying... should on your logic be banned...

that will kill off a number of posters on here who seem to think that women are secondary citizens and that men should be allowed to do what they want with women's spaces etc...

where would your posts sit?

This issue is wholly created by news outlets and the police reporting Men as Women.

So nobody can trust a single reort of 'woman did or had done to' any more.

And an onslaught of 'That's not a woman' is bound to result in people pulling stuff UNTIL THEY FIND OUT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Which is exactly what KIS did here.

Statistically being trans is the safest thing to be.

I think:
2 women a week are murdered.
3 men a week are murdered.
1 trans woman every 7 years is murdered.

"Look what you made me do" is straight out of the abusers charter and it's not something we should be debasing ourselves to.

Abusers are also great at taking statements that are totally valid in one context, applying them to a completely different context and claiming to be a victim.

The existence of burglars means we lock our doors.

I agree with the point about fact checking and stopping to think, but not with the manipulative framing above it.

I disagree.

"Look what you made me do" is straight out of the abusers charter and it's not something we should be debasing ourselves to.

This is clearly an unedifying episode all round. I am pleased that CDW has reinstated Hayley's memorial, and I very much hope her poor family didn't have to witness any of the extremely unpleasant things said about her appearance online.

I think it's a salutary lesson not to jump to conclusions, not to believe everything we read on the internet, and not to spread "facts" online we haven't ascertained. I also saw the distasteful thread posted on here and although it was rightly deleted it should never have been put up.

I believe Karen Ingala Smith has faced a great deal of harassment online, not just today but for years, simply because of she believes it's meaningful and necessary to highlight male violence against the female sex rather than a specific gender presentation.

I do not believe any of the scolders on this thread have ever condemned that.

Well yes, where’s the condemnation of the OP of this thread? Who, if we follow the logic, must have started it to encourage people to go to X to harass KIS.

What would be a bigger news story?

Another woman being murdered by a man

A Trans woman being murdered

The statistics for murders of trans identifying people, of either sex, are (fortunately) that rare in the UK it is a massive deal when it does happen.

Sometimes a person's sex matters. For the purpose of those stats it mattered. A mistake was made and they have apologised. Highlighting a possible factual error is not a horrific thing to do. We can't do away with aiming for factual accuracy because someone might get upset or a mistake might be made. Worrying about hurt feelings is how we came to waste money to have worthless meaningless census stats.

Most posters on here are meticulous in fact checking. They read pages of research studies and court judgements, they watch whole interviews not edited clips, they look at the actual legislation, or policy... and they are not responsible for the actions of other people on other sites or social media.

I believe Karen Ingala Smith has faced a great deal of harassment online, not just today but for years, simply because of she believes it's meaningful and necessary to highlight male violence against the female sex rather than a specific gender presentation.

I do not believe any of the scolders on this thread have ever condemned that.

It's telling to me how her apology for an error has received far more attention on X from angry genderists than all her posts about murdered women. Almost like they only start to care about a murdered woman when something can be leveraged to advance their project of maligning any woman who does not fall into line with their belief that our womanhood is a matter of personality rather than sex.

If men stopped pretending to be women, this wouldn't happen

Yes, but on the issue of holding what has now come to be termed 'gender critical' views - the legal clarification is more recent.

Oh please, please tell me you told HQ that allowing women to talk here is like someone shooting up heroin.

One thing that might come out of this ridiculous situation is that this X account might get some more traction.

I didn't know about it before; I know about it now, and I will tell others about it in the future.

Thanks OP :)

No, not at least one. It was only one. I saw it when it was first posted and the first post was a regular on this board saying it was a horrible thread and should be taken down. I personally didn’t recognise the OP as a regular so can’t comment on their motivation.
So why are you making accusations based on the OP rather than the first reply?

Omg Ive just gone onto the counting dead women twitter account to try to work out what this thread is about, I dont think im easily shocked, but I was aghast at the number of women being murdered by men. I have read the statistics before and I am aware of what femicide means, but reading each account is simply something else.
The repetition , the constant presence of hatred of women often by men who are apparently close intimate partners. The sheer level of violence, Im not a religious person really but that twitter feed to me seems to be evidence of actual evil. This thread is focused on the wrong point about this issue.

Indeedaroonie.

It wasn’t allowed to stand, so the system works.

This should go without saying, but given the people out there and indeed on this thread who take utter delight in finding any way to narrate events to malign gebder critical feminists:

The people who harassed the victim's family because they thought the victim was trans were behaving like shits. The fact in this case the victim wasn't trans isn't the reason it's shitty behaviour, it was shitty behaviour all along.

I saw it. It was someone who had posted before. Yes, I looked because it seemed goady. Not a particularly familiar name, but no reason to think it was a TRA. Just a dickhead. All groups have them.

Let me summarise: it's all women's fault, most particularly the women who post on FWR. And it's always women's fault, and JK Rowling made us all do it?

Well that’s projection.

I saw the post, you didn’t.

Woudl you concur that it is entirely possible that

a) the original "transinvestigation" was started by TRAs on X

b) any harassment was stoked up by TRAs on X towards the family.

c) the MN post this poster is talking about was actually posted by the lovely OP of this thread.

wow, some social media stories are not posted here quick enough, others are posted too quickly. It’s hard to keep up. What would be the correct time frame? Clarity would be appreciated, not just nagging and complaining.