pronouns on booking form

I'm not understanding the comparison here. The name you give in Starbucks is completely meaningless.

Forcing people to declare pronouns is more akin to forcing somebody to swear on a religious text.

I wasn’t laughing at consent. I was laughing at you using it here. Consent is serious, which is exactly why I don’t think it should be dragged into an argument about a tick box on a booking form.
Go back and read my comments. At no point did I say you couldn’t say no. You can say no all day long. What I said was that I thought it was a disproportionate fuss over something that costs you a second and has no consequences for you. “Just tick the box” was obviously shorthand for “you could just tick the box”. Nobody was ordering you to do anything, and I think you know that.

Here’s an example. Someone’s asked for her name at Starbucks so they can call her when her coffee’s ready. She says “No, I don’t want to.” I’d think that’s a bit odd and say “it’s only so they can shout you when it’s done.” She says “NO.” I’d say “okay, weird hill to die on, but you do you.” That isn’t me denying her right to say no. It’s me thinking the no is petty and a bit precious. Both things can be true.

Having the right to say no doesn’t make every no a reasonable one. Women’s can be unreasonable, men’s can be unreasonable, and so can anyone else’s. Saying “that seems disproportionate” isn’t overriding someone’s autonomy, and suggesting it is waters down something that actually matters. There are women whose no really is ignored, and they deserve better than having the language borrowed for a disagreement over a form.

I know, I should too but I identify as a pedant and I should probably get some therapy. 😐

Edited for clarity and a spelling mistake 😂

Lmao, "danger,," "submit". It's a form, not a kidnapping.

Actually hilarious.

Pronouns are incredibly helpful, especially these days when so many younger people, cis and trans, have ambiguous names and appearances. It's often hard to work out whether Jazz, Phoenix or Sid identify as male or female, and you may encounter names culturally unfamiliar to you. My friends Leslie and Jol both use pronouns in their email signatures so people will know they're women. Both are cis.

There's so much evil in the world to be fought. Making very basic accommodations and being polite to people different to you, is not violence.

There isn’t a consensus on that. I’ve seen arguments from transpeople against compelling revealing pronouns as it could be outing.

In addition, for many feminists, alongside the argument that pronoun use in this way suggests adherence to a particular ideology, there has long been a resistance to signalling sex when it is unnecessary. Women are frequently disadvantaged when this happens. There seem to be a whole heap of people acutely aware of unconscious bias and microagressions when it comes to every group other than women.

It would harm me - already here people have assumed that women who put she/her pronouns in their signatures are 'cis'

That's the exact thing I've been fighting most of my life - from the first time I was given a baby doll for Christmas when what I wanted was a toy aeroplane like my brother. Or when I was made to wear a skirt to school, or hounded out of A-level physics by a misogynist teacher.

It doesn’t harm me? Yes, it does. It indicates that that person believes in a harmful ideology, an ideology that doesn’t care about women’s boundaries. The kind of person who feels strongly about pronouns is also the kind of person who will hurl abuse at women for not accepting men in their spaces (see the parkrun thread for examples).
It tells me that that person is an idiot or a sheep. Or even that they could be abusive.

So no, I absolutely will not put my pronouns on anything and I am wary of anyone who does.

Consent is serious, and I don't consent to men identifying into the category "women", or accessing single sex spaces that are for women, or participating in womens and girls sports, or winning awards set aside for women or taking positions allocated to women or telling me to accept pronouns that are not factual or that men can become women through jedi mind power.
If men have a problem with male gendered stereotypes, and feel they do not fit into them, then fight the bloody stereotype, leave women alone.
Feminists gave up so much throughout history to fight for change, and mostly we had to fight men.
Transactivists appear to me to be too gutless to fight men for changes, or safety in their rightful sports, facilities and spaces, so they trample on womens rights and tell us we are being petty for arguing against the tools, like pronouns, that they are using to strip us of our identity.
So don't come on here and expect us to roll over. We've had generations of this fight for our right to exist as we please, and you honestly think you can persuade us otherwise by scripting which hill you think its appropriate for us to die on.

I wasn’t laughing at consent. I was laughing at you using it here. Consent is serious, which is exactly why I don’t think it should be dragged into an argument about a tick box on a booking form.
Go back and read my comments. At no point did I say you couldn’t say no. You can say no all day long. What I said was that I thought it was a disproportionate fuss over something that costs you a second and has no consequences for you. “Just tick the box” was obviously shorthand for “you could just tick the box”. Nobody was ordering you to do anything, and I think you know that.

Here’s an example. Someone’s asked for her name at Starbucks so they can call her when her coffee’s ready. She says “No, I don’t want to.” I’d think that’s a bit odd and say “it’s only so they can shout you when it’s done.” She says “NO.” I’d say “okay, weird hill to die on, but you do you.” That isn’t me denying her right to say no. It’s me thinking the no is petty and a bit precious. Both things can be true.

Having the right to say no doesn’t make every no a reasonable one. Women’s can be unreasonable, men’s can be unreasonable, and so can anyone else’s. Saying “that seems disproportionate” isn’t overriding someone’s autonomy, and suggesting it is waters down something that actually matters. There are women whose no really is ignored, and they deserve better than having the language borrowed for a disagreement over a form.

I was actually #beingkind and trying to ignore that.

It is Schrodinger's Harm.

The use of 'there's' instead of 'theirs' is causing me mental distress....

Me? none.
Other people? To people for whom it does matter what pronouns they are referred to by, it can cause severe emotional distress and be detrimental to their mental health.

Tell me with honesty and sincerity that ticking a box and allowing people to clearly know how you would prefer to be referred to causes you similar harm.

It is Schrodinger's Harm.

The use of 'there's' instead of 'theirs' is causing me mental distress....

What harm comes to you from not having pronouns on a badge? On one hand youre saying it’s not a big deal to put them on, but youre now saying it causes harm to others if you don’t? It’s either a big deal or not. Which is it?

What harm comes to you from not having pronouns on a badge? On one hand youre saying it’s not a big deal to put them on, but youre now saying it causes harm to others if you don’t? It’s either a big deal or not. Which is it?

It doesn’t harm you to have pronouns on your badge, it can harm other people to not have it on there’s.

It doesn’t harm you to have pronouns on your badge, it can harm other people to not have it on there’s.

It doesn’t harm you to have pronouns on your badge, it can harm other people to not have it on there’s.