Teacher upset with my child questioning about trans child

OP said that her DD was questioning the teacher every day - not the other child. This might be because she has endless different questions; or it may be because she knows that what she's being told every time (a brush-off rather than an answer) doesn't make sense, hence her asking again repeatedly - I'm guessing (given her very young age) probably the same basic question of how a boy can possibly turn into a girl; and absolutely perplexed as to why she can see the obvious illogicality of it, but nobody else - including an adult - can.

Young children don't understand the concept of social lies, or avoiding the elephant in the room - which is why little ones will (genuinely, without any malice) ask e.g. "Mummy, why is that lady so fat?"... and then, when their mum desperately tries to silence or distract them, they come back with "But she IS a fat lady, Mummy - why is she so fat?"

Yes, children of that age tend to be all-in when they have a keen interest in something, which can often become an obsession - especially if it's something that gets them attention and/or makes them feel special.

This is exactly why parents use sticker charts for little ones: to encourage them to see brushing their teeth or remembering to say Please and Thank you as positive things that put the focus on to them and earns them praise.

I have no misunderstanding.

Men, women, boy and girl are sex words.

Certain social traits are more common in one sex or the other, the exact mix of nature or nurture is up for a long debate. It doesn’t really matter until you try and use personality traits to determine sex, or limit a person’s aspirations because of their sex.

But these sex words themselves DO NOT refer to collections of social traits, they refer to the male and female of our species. Male and female are clearly understood definitions across the animal and plant kingdoms.

Just because you want sex words to mean something social rather than physical and material, it does not mean this is how they are used by the vast majority of people in daily use. Your pronouncements do not have the power to redefine words.

You are mistaking the traits commonly (but not exclusively) exhibited by one sex or the other as being what actually determines someone’s sex.

Sex is not determined by collection of behavioural or social traits. Sex is a neutral physical fact like eye colour or height.

Gender identity is a nebulous concept arrived at in order to explain the feeling of gender dysphoria. It is a false explanation for which there is no evidence. It is a belief system that relies on an inner personhood that is separate from the body, and necessitates redefining common sex words to mean “inner sense of who a person is or fantasises that they are” rather than that person’s sex.

So its the same conversation every day? For how many days?

This is what I mean, little kids would accept if someone told them they were brought up by wolves, have fairies in the garden or any other fantasy. Why OP's little girl cant get past it? I mean she should not accept it as a fact, just accept it as something about this boy that exists.

Well OP has every right to tell her daughter that this boy has not turned into a girl, he simply thinks he turned into a girl, so no need to ask any questions, its just a type of make belief. That's it! I think its allowed under the current legislation?

I'm still struggling to believe someone would "transition" a 4 year old.

A boy in my son's class was transitioned at 4. I know it's shocking to hear but unfortunately it happens.

Slightly separate issue but the school are compelling my child to refer to a mtf trans teacher as she her.
my child is refusing and getting into trouble, one becuase the teacher is clearly male and child doesn’t believe they are she her, and two child is autistic and stubborn as fuck. She has had several detentions for slipping up and saying he instead of MX NAME, which is what we have taught her to use.

this is another child reporting her when it happens.

is there any defence I can make to the school? Chikd is not trying to offend or be disrespectful

Socially transitioned or was he mutilated, as well?

I have no idea how something so sexual can be imposed on a child that did not even reach puberty.

I would raise it with your local authority, as your child has SEN they should not be sanctioned for this.

What else this "female" teacher demands? Is "she" allowed unrestricted access to the girls in the school, as in changing rooms etc? Sounds well dodgy.

There's a clear parallel here with the situation in courts/tribunals, where people are expected to basically lie to the court by calling a natal male 'she', or whatever. But kinda worse when its kids. Surely the principle should be that schools and teachers should never lie to kids, or encourage them to. That's why we give them a position of trust with our children. For children who are autistic, that seems even more important, but surely it applies to all children really.

How old is your child? Is this a primary or secondary school?

Firstly the school does need to to make reasonable adjustments for your child's SEN. How on earth the issue of a male teacher claiming to be a woman should be navigated alongside your child's rights will no doubt be a challenging discussion. But punishing her with detentions is I suspect (IANAL) failing to acknowledge her rights in relation to religion or belief. Compelling her to say she instead of the biologically accurate he and then punishing her seems disproportionate and suggests the children are being used by an insecure adult determined on pushing gender identity at children.

The issue of adults imposing their belief in sex change isn't specifically addressed in any of the guidance that I've read, although the KCSIE guidance does state that "a school or college must also be conscious of the rights of pupils and staff in relation to their religion or belief".

Tbh, it raises a range of questions, many of which will depend on the age and context of what's happening. Competent women teachers don't mind when accidentally called Sir (or Mum) unless it's used deliberately and repeatedly to undermine authority. Which could be an issue here?

I don’t know what if any demands have been made other than Mx and she/her. luckily my child is not in their class.

does that mean non SEN children can be compelled to use incorrect terminology?

Year seven, age 12
DD has already really struggled with starting high school there is one problem after the other

this is the latest

DD was in detention for repeatedly asking to go to the loo during class (period) and this teacher was taking the detention, DD told her friends afterwards and accidentally said he instead of Mx. That was the first incident where she got a warning, she has since had detention.

im struggling as I would not be using she / her either, but don’t want to break any equality laws.

So hopefully your DD shouldn't need to have contact with him and can avoid. If she's not in his class then is she speaking to him / about him in earshot? On corridors?

While I'm fully aware of the potential issues, he like all staff, have the right to walk around the school without children making comments at him / about him within earshot. That's why I asked about the context.

To my understanding the teacher may not even be aware, it’s not directed at them or in their presence.

one incident was to her ‘friends’, one of whom reported her resulting in a warning

one was on WhatsApp which again got reported , I’ve seen it, it wasn’t nasty it was statement of fact “he is dull af we did nothing in the detention” thereabouts

and one was to another teacher trying to explain the above and defending herself

I hadn’t got to your reply at that point

It's ridiculous. How are you supposed to pronounce Mx anyway? "Micks"? "Em-Ex"? Why should we expect children to jump through these hoops?

Mix I believe

I am very glad DD isn’t in their class only because she would constantly be in trouble and they would assume any poor behaviour is directed at the teacher when it’s sadly just her atm

You’re still misunderstanding. I’m not suggesting that personality traits, behaviours or stereotypes determine someone’s biological sex. I’ve never said anything of the sort.

I’m explaining that the body and the meanings we attach to it are not the same thing. Gender is precisely the social and psychological meaning we give to sex and perceived bodily differences — how we understand, interpret and organise those differences in society.

Having a particular reproductive anatomy is a biological fact. But the moment we see that body, recognise it as male or female, and understand what that means, we’re already interpreting it through the social and psychological knowledge we have about sex. That’s gender. We cannot simply look at human bodies without bringing that understanding to what we see. There is no entirely neutral, interpretation-free way of perceiving and categorising sex.

But words are not material facts. Words are how we recognise, categorise and give meaning to the world around us. And the meanings through which we understand sex and sexual differences are precisely what gender is.

Words aren’t chromosomes. They're part of how we construct meaning around sex — and that is gender.

Thanks - we've cross posted! Lots of issues aren't there?

I would get her off whatsapp as it's evident that at least one other child is using it to get her into trouble. There also seems to be another "friend" setting her up by reporting her to staff which would suggest that they don't have her interests at heart. It sounds as if she's being "set up" over this and you don't want them to do that with her peer group as well. The school need to make reasonable adjustments for her SEN. Why is she being punished after being reported by other students for "misgendering"? The school seem to have handled this badly.

Think I'd be speaking to the school asap about how she's struggling to settle in. Struggling with periods, getting in trouble for leaving the classroom, friends who are "telling tales" to staff about her.

I'd be focussing on supporting her and ensuring that the school minimses any issues around this teacher. Along with supporting her to find different friends (easier said than done I know).

I think she should still be corrected (if this is what school wants) but she should not be sanctioned for this. Unless they treat it in the same way they treat homophobia, racism etc - then having SEN would not be an excuse.

The thing is even if you force the child to accept the pronouns etc it will not change their mind in the the slightest.

We don’t create reality by looking at it.

You have swallowed too much post-modernism.

eta: I don’t misunderstand you, I do not agree with you. We use words to refer to concrete material real facts about the world. “Cat” does not mean a dog.