Organisations refusing to give their single sex spaces policy - David Lloyd for example

Yes, yes of course I’ll get flamed for this but i don’t really care. I’m GC - I don’t believe anyone can change sex, and think women are entitled to penis-free spaces. Yet I’m sympathetic to the plight of some trans people, recognise they exist & aren’t going anywhere, so it’s important we start to make space for them. They’re human beings like everyone else. It’s honestly become so boring and pointless hearing people constantly complain, worry and bang on about a situation that is very, very unlikely to ever happen to them!! Firstly, only 0.1% of the population are trans women. How many of those trans women do you think would be bold enough to get naked in a changing room surrounded by women, with their dick swinging about all over the place?? I’d say about 0.001%. That would be the behaviour of a sex offender, not a regular trans woman. Because everyone, even the trans woman, knows it’s not appropriate for a penis to be hanging out in a women’s changing room. Also, trans women hate the fact they have a penis, they want to be seen as women, so why on earth would they want their penis to be seen? 99% of them will be changing in cubicles. And it sounds like the 1% of freaks with a fetish who want to expose themselves will not be allowed in the women’s changing room anyway. David Lloyd’s ‘case-by-case’ policy sounds sensible and fair to me. They’re only able to have a case-by-case policy because trans members are so rare! Even in Brighton. So you can imagine how rare they are in other places. Case-by-case is considering the needs & comfort of all people- eg. A fully post-op trans woman would at worst be at risk of serious harm in the men’s, and and at best, find the experience humiliating. Whereas in the women’s it’s unlikely anyone would even notice! Their body looks female and they have no penis. Them using the women’s makes the most sense for everyone in that situation. However, if a big hairy “trans woman” comes in who clearly just self-IDs as trans, and hasn’t had any surgery, it would be inappropriate for him to use the women’s. It sounds like this is exactly what David Lloyd are doing. They’re trying to be inclusive, but not to the detriment of women’s safety, which is commendable. And also very tough for an organisation. But all this worry about it is all totally pointless anyway because I guarantee no one on this thread has ever or will ever see a man with their penis hanging out in a women’s changing room!! It’s like someone starting a thread about being concerned about being hit by lightning and asking how to avoid it - for which the chances are probably higher. Everyone would think they were mental 🤣

Yes, yes of course I’ll get flamed for this but i don’t really care. I’m GC - I don’t believe anyone can change sex, and think women are entitled to penis-free spaces. Yet I’m sympathetic to the plight of some trans people, recognise they exist & aren’t going anywhere, so it’s important we start to make space for them. They’re human beings like everyone else. It’s honestly become so boring and pointless hearing people constantly complain, worry and bang on about a situation that is very, very unlikely to ever happen to them!! Firstly, only 0.1% of the population are trans women. How many of those trans women do you think would be bold enough to get naked in a changing room surrounded by women, with their dick swinging about all over the place?? I’d say about 0.001%. That would be the behaviour of a sex offender, not a regular trans woman. Because everyone, even the trans woman, knows it’s not appropriate for a penis to be hanging out in a women’s changing room. Also, trans women hate the fact they have a penis, they want to be seen as women, so why on earth would they want their penis to be seen? 99% of them will be changing in cubicles. And it sounds like the 1% of freaks with a fetish who want to expose themselves will not be allowed in the women’s changing room anyway. David Lloyd’s ‘case-by-case’ policy sounds sensible and fair to me. They’re only able to have a case-by-case policy because trans members are so rare! Even in Brighton. So you can imagine how rare they are in other places. Case-by-case is considering the needs & comfort of all people- eg. A fully post-op trans woman would at worst be at risk of serious harm in the men’s, and and at best, find the experience humiliating. Whereas in the women’s it’s unlikely anyone would even notice! Their body looks female and they have no penis. Them using the women’s makes the most sense for everyone in that situation. However, if a big hairy “trans woman” comes in who clearly just self-IDs as trans, and hasn’t had any surgery, it would be inappropriate for him to use the women’s. It sounds like this is exactly what David Lloyd are doing. They’re trying to be inclusive, but not to the detriment of women’s safety, which is commendable. And also very tough for an organisation. But all this worry about it is all totally pointless anyway because I guarantee no one on this thread has ever or will ever see a man with their penis hanging out in a women’s changing room!! It’s like someone starting a thread about being concerned about being hit by lightning and asking how to avoid it - for which the chances are probably higher. Everyone would think they were mental 🤣

The manager did email me back about 6 hours ago saying (before I posted this)

“Afternoon SSSIS,

I have previously responded earlier in the year and our stance is still as follows.

At this time, our approach is to carefully balance the needs and concerns of all members at club level, in line with the Equality Act 2010, what we know from the recent Supreme Court ruling, and relevant guidance across the industry.
We always consider the specific facilities available at our club as well as our legal responsibilities when making decisions. When an individual presents as transgender, we take the time to understand their needs and discuss what’s most appropriate for them and for our wider membership.

We fully appreciate that this is an emotive and evolving area. Like many organisations, we await further guidance, and will welcome the clarity it provides once published.

I am aware that since then there has now been another new ruling, I have reached out for guidance on how that will affect us and any policies moving forward, I will update you once this is received.

If a team member has made your visit a great one, please be sure to let us know via the 'rate your visit' notification in the app.

Best wishes,

David Knight
General Manager
David Lloyd Brighton”

So I emailed him back saying I was going to be there tomorrow with my daughter and maybe he would be kind enough to explain the policy 1:2 to my daughter.

@SingleSexSpacesInSchools I've been trying to get an answer from a local gym, also a swimming pool. In my enquiry I referred to biological sex/Equality Act, and got immediate word salad replies - "needs of users", "respecting dignity, safety" blah blah. Avoiding the actual question. Wrote again, more bluntly, asking for confirmation that by "women" they mean biological women in accordance with the Equality Act. That was 10 days ago. A big fat silence.

In fact it was a banger so here it is in full.

Dear David,

Thank you for your reply.

My daughter and I are planning to visit the club tomorrow to look at the new gym equipment.

While we are there, I would like to meet with you briefly so that you can explain David Lloyd Brighton’s current changing room policy to us directly, including how the female changing room is currently being operated and who is permitted to use it.

I am aware that the new EHRC Code of Practice has now been laid before Parliament. However, that is guidance on how to comply with the Equality Act 2010. It is not the underlying law that has recently changed. The law itself remains the Equality Act 2010, as clarified by the Supreme Court in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers: sex means biological sex for the purposes of that Act.

That means David Lloyd must already have legally compliant processes in place, and must be able to enforce those processes competently. It cannot simply operate changing rooms on an unclear, unpublished, case-by-case basis while members and children are expected to undress.

The stated EHRC position is that if a space is described or operated as single-sex, such as a female changing room, then it must be single-sex on the basis of biological sex. If male people are admitted on the basis of gender identity, then the space is not in fact single-sex, and female members and girls need to be told that clearly before they are expected to use it.

As my daughter is a female member who may be expected to use those facilities, I think it is reasonable that she hears the policy clearly and directly. She is entitled to know whether the female changing room is actually single-sex, and whether male people are permitted to enter it.

Please also note that my belief that women and girls are entitled to male-free changing spaces is a protected belief under the Equality Act 2010. Any detrimental treatment, including any attempt to restrict or cancel my membership because I have raised this lawful concern, would be treated as potential discrimination and/or victimisation, and I would reserve all legal remedies.

Please also be aware that if David Lloyd does not have a clear policy in place ensuring that female changing rooms are single-sex in practice, I will consider making a formal complaint and taking further legal advice. My daughter would also have her own potential rights and remedies if she is placed in a position where her privacy, dignity or safety is compromised in a changing room.

Please can you let me know what time you are available tomorrow.

Kind regards,

SSSIS

@SingleSexSpacesInSchools Thinking of waiting a month and asking again via a different email address, saying I'm trans and worried I won't be allowed in the women's changing rooms/showers after the EHRC guidance.