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Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

993 replies

ickky · 11/10/2023 10:41

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2 | Mumsnet

Abbreviations JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C) OU - The Open University, Respondent (R) J - Regional Employment Judge Young P - Panel or panel memb...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Mmmnotsure · 12/10/2023 12:40

BC: quotes prof Holliman - can we remove the letters while the investigation goes on. Sally Hayes (panel member) says, I completely agree. It is the significant ongoing harm they are doing to JP and our duty of care here.

BC: The panel made the case for interim measure to take down letters.

CM: Consideration was given. Outcome was that they should remain. Can't speak further re balancing of harms.

Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 12:40

@pronounsbundlebundle As soon as they kick us out, log back in again.

OP posts:
Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 12:39

@pronounsbundlebundle try going out and coming back in maybe they will see you then - I think the clerk isn't always able to see the waiting room

pronounsbundlebundle · 12/10/2023 12:39

I can't get back in! I was obviously too long in making a cup of tea and having a wee 😁

Will be relying on you all to keep me updated. Was looking forward to finding out what else senior people didn't do. At this point, I'm not sure I'd be shocked by anything.

There are people who I know who think University employees 'do nothing all day except drink cups of coffee and waffle on in meetings'. I'm finding myself increasingly in sympathy with this position. What was this person doing if she failed to read such a contentious grievance?

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 12/10/2023 12:38

maltravers · 12/10/2023 12:29

Panel members chosen on the basis of knowledge and understanding of the issues. Hmm. Does anyone else smell a stonewall trained rat?

Surely not.

Hd Size GIF
Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 12:36

CM disagreeing that no care was taken even though she's admitted to not knowing the OU policy; putting all the responsibility on junior staff; and not even reading the grievance.

I think that's symptomatic of the approach - Jo was a problem and they just wanted her to go away. No one cares about what this was doing to her

Mmmnotsure · 12/10/2023 12:36

If I were working for her at Westminster I would be job hunting about now.

maltravers · 12/10/2023 12:36

Binturong, you would expect they would go through in granular detail how she assessed the grievance. It didn’t take very long for BC to discover the non reading.

JoIsBraverThanIAm · 12/10/2023 12:35

I wonder what the circumstances were of her leaving the OU and moving to Westminster?

Mmmnotsure · 12/10/2023 12:35

We needed long grass on the bingo card

Mmmnotsure · 12/10/2023 12:35

BC: On basis of your evidence I will say to panel at the end that v little rigour or attention paid to way claimant's complaint was dealt with, and not dealt with in timely way.

CM totally disagrees.

maltravers · 12/10/2023 12:34

Excluding from the panel people actively involved in the protests is hardly the same as impartial. I qualify on that front and I am most definitely partial.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 12/10/2023 12:33

maltravers · 12/10/2023 12:17

I would expect that to become clear when witness statements were taken and when decisions were made between the lawyers and OU as to who they would put up in the hearing.

Show quote history

That was my thought. But I wonder ... some things are so fundamental that you simply wouldn't think to ask.

'On the day of the meeting, did you put on clothes before going into the office?'

'Were you breathing throughout the discussion?'

'Did you read the grievance that led to this whole mess?'

'When', sure - they should have asked 'when'. But I can undersand 'if' not occurring to them.

Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 12:32

CM really doesn't seem to have seen much of the OU case before - I know she's moved on from there so maybe she just doesn't care

chilling19 · 12/10/2023 12:31

Despite the pronoun kefuffle at the beginning, this judge does ask some decent questions.

eurochick · 12/10/2023 12:30

I'm shocked by the comment about not having read the grievance. Even if as HR head in a large organisation you couldn't t read every one that was submitted surely you would take the time when it was blowing up to the point where external legal advice was needed? Blimey.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/10/2023 12:29

Cailleach1 · 12/10/2023 12:27

Not reading the grievance was deliberately ignoring it, IMO. It is not like CM was not aware of the situation. Not to even bother to read the grievance appears to be at best negligent, at worst contemptuous of the idea that JP deserves to be treated with fairness.

It is quite something.

Show quote history

Indeed.

LarkLane · 12/10/2023 12:29

To a pp's question upthread. No it's not unlawful to not read a grievance nor to ignore the procedures. Things can go against the employer at ET if they havent followed their own procedures however.
Here's how things should work. ACAS link
https://www.acas.org.uk/grievance-procedure-step-by-step

Step 1: Understanding the options - Formal grievance procedure - Acas

What should happen when an employee raises a formal workplace grievance.

https://www.acas.org.uk/grievance-procedure-step-by-step

maltravers · 12/10/2023 12:29

Panel members chosen on the basis of knowledge and understanding of the issues. Hmm. Does anyone else smell a stonewall trained rat?

Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/10/2023 12:29

Anyone else not able to get back in??

Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 12:28

Who were the names on the panel looking at the grievance?

chilling19 · 12/10/2023 12:28

Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 12:22

No @chilling19 she was busy and important and other people were running the process so it wasn't her fault and she didn't need to know the policy because someone else did.

Those BIG IMPORTANT JOBS eh?

Cailleach1 · 12/10/2023 12:27

Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/10/2023 11:55

And strategically, CM has to maintain that she didn't read it, otherwise she'd have to admit that she ignored it.

Show quote history

Not reading the grievance was deliberately ignoring it, IMO. It is not like CM was not aware of the situation. Not to even bother to read the grievance appears to be at best negligent, at worst contemptuous of the idea that JP deserves to be treated with fairness.

It is quite something.

maltravers · 12/10/2023 12:26

Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 12:26

This witness is really trying to push the blame on to her junior staff. I wouldn't want to work for her after this display

Surprise surprise

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 12/10/2023 12:26

TrumpetOfTheMatriarchy · 12/10/2023 12:16

I think your use of 'sane' time I
s a bit optimistic in this context

Show quote history

That'll teach me to post without my contacts in. 😂

Yes 'sane' times certainly seem to be few and far between.