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Original poster

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

993 replies

ickky · 11/10/2023 10:41

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2 | Mumsnet

Abbreviations JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C) OU - The Open University, Respondent (R) J - Regional Employment Judge Young P - Panel or panel memb...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 12:55

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 12/10/2023 12:53

Witness don’t have a great memory of events that happened such a long time ago (2 years).

In fairness, I struggle to remember what I had for dinner yesterday.

The length of time it takes to get to court is appalling.

This country's infrastructure is fucked.

OP posts:
Janinejones · 12/10/2023 12:55

Buck or doe = supper.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 12/10/2023 12:53

Witness don’t have a great memory of events that happened such a long time ago (2 years).

IcakethereforeIam · 12/10/2023 12:53

Doe!

pronounsbundlebundle · 12/10/2023 12:52

IcakethereforeIam · 12/10/2023 12:49

So, the buck didn't stop with you.

Tah dah!

Show quote history

Isn't it a little transphobic to assume the deer's gender, even in pursuit of excellent puns? Zie may have been a nonbinary deer....

Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 12:52

Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/10/2023 12:51

It let me in earlier. But i suspect i wasn't as quick on the draw in getting back in on the break.

Is it always this hit and miss??

Show quote history

It is always shit, but not usually this shit.

OP posts:
Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/10/2023 12:51

ickky · 12/10/2023 12:44

@Ameanstreakamilewide You need to have the camera and the mic on, this is the tribunals mic and camera.

You will need to log out and in again making sure there is no strikethrough on the camera and mic.

It let me in earlier. But i suspect i wasn't as quick on the draw in getting back in on the break.

Is it always this hit and miss??

Mmmnotsure · 12/10/2023 12:50

c 40 in. 2 waiting in lobby

Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 12:50

CriticalCondition · 12/10/2023 12:48

It will be interesting to see how the whole pronoun thing goes when we get to Dr Downes who now has a different name and pronouns to the ones they was using for theyself back in 2021.

Oh god, this is going to ruin my dramatis personae.

Any idea of new name and pronouns?

OP posts:
IcakethereforeIam · 12/10/2023 12:49

pronounsbundlebundle · 12/10/2023 12:46

I'm getting the 'waiting for the conference host to join' announcement which I think means the clerk hasn't let me back in. Have tried several times.

I am finding my exclusion all rather triggering and may need a safe space or a support animal shortly......a rather sweet muntjac deer just ran across my garden. I had hoped it might support me and recognise how vulnerable and oppressed i am but it buggered off. It didn't even eat my weeds. Deer bigotry!

So, the buck didn't stop with you.

Tah dah!

pronounsbundlebundle · 12/10/2023 12:49

How many people are in? Maybe they're at capacity (which is a bit odd, given actual conferences take place online, but there you are...).

CriticalCondition · 12/10/2023 12:48

It will be interesting to see how the whole pronoun thing goes when we get to Dr Downes who now has a different name and pronouns to the ones they was using for theyself back in 2021.

Melissamelisante · 12/10/2023 12:48

BC sounds a bit cheesed off with the witness. It must be like pulling teeth

Helleofabore · 12/10/2023 12:47

LarkLane · 12/10/2023 12:29

To a pp's question upthread. No it's not unlawful to not read a grievance nor to ignore the procedures. Things can go against the employer at ET if they havent followed their own procedures however.
Here's how things should work. ACAS link
https://www.acas.org.uk/grievance-procedure-step-by-step

thanks lark

Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 12:46

😂 To be fair, a muntjac deer is a pretty fancy support animal. Even Ben only has the humble Wren.

OP posts:
pronounsbundlebundle · 12/10/2023 12:46

I'm getting the 'waiting for the conference host to join' announcement which I think means the clerk hasn't let me back in. Have tried several times.

I am finding my exclusion all rather triggering and may need a safe space or a support animal shortly......a rather sweet muntjac deer just ran across my garden. I had hoped it might support me and recognise how vulnerable and oppressed i am but it buggered off. It didn't even eat my weeds. Deer bigotry!

IcakethereforeIam · 12/10/2023 12:45

And that what it's all about 🎶

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 12/10/2023 12:45

Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/10/2023 12:41

Do you just have a blank screen? Is that the same as being in the waiting room?

I have the names of the participants on the left, and the chat function, but sod all else.
It seems to be a bit of pot luck whether you're let back in again.

Show quote history

Well it sounds like you’re in. Did you connect with both the camera and microphone (drop down box next to connect button)? That so you receive audio and video. You turn your camera and microphone off once you’re in.

Chrysanthemum5 · 12/10/2023 12:44

@Ameanstreakamilewide when that happens you need to leave and try to come back in. The tech is just rubbish

Original poster
ickky · 12/10/2023 12:44

@Ameanstreakamilewide You need to have the camera and the mic on, this is the tribunals mic and camera.

You will need to log out and in again making sure there is no strikethrough on the camera and mic.

OP posts:
Mmmnotsure · 12/10/2023 12:43

Always the passive voice with CM. Things were done and decided, but no one seems to have done or decided anything.

OvaHere · 12/10/2023 12:43

Sorry late catching up here. Absolutely incredible that she never read the grievance. 😱

Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/10/2023 12:41

pronounsbundlebundle · 12/10/2023 12:39

I can't get back in! I was obviously too long in making a cup of tea and having a wee 😁

Will be relying on you all to keep me updated. Was looking forward to finding out what else senior people didn't do. At this point, I'm not sure I'd be shocked by anything.

There are people who I know who think University employees 'do nothing all day except drink cups of coffee and waffle on in meetings'. I'm finding myself increasingly in sympathy with this position. What was this person doing if she failed to read such a contentious grievance?

Do you just have a blank screen? Is that the same as being in the waiting room?

I have the names of the participants on the left, and the chat function, but sod all else.
It seems to be a bit of pot luck whether you're let back in again.

Cailleach1 · 12/10/2023 12:41

chilling19 · 12/10/2023 12:31

Despite the pronoun kefuffle at the beginning, this judge does ask some decent questions.

And, automatically referred to Dr Boukli as 'she' at one point, I think. Roughly 'she can answer that if she wants'. Exposing that despite the theatrics of the pronoun rigmarole, we (and the judge) know what a man and a woman are in reality.

Melissamelisante · 12/10/2023 12:40

ickky · 12/10/2023 12:40

@pronounsbundlebundle As soon as they kick us out, log back in again.

Hope I didn't nick your spot!