The dreaded issue arose with my son…

Surely there are some things, like the fact that humans can't change sex, which should be taught to children as the truth. Or do you think that children should be taught all sorts of crackpot theories and leave them to make their own minds up about whether those or the actual science are right?

That is because they are a 'sister' or a 'father'.

What you are doing when you expect a child to use pronouns which are in contrast to the reality of the child's sex- is you are sowing unnecessary confusion - and nurturing a tendency for them to not take their own feelings and knowledege of truth seriously - or to gloss over it for the sake of 'being kind' to others. Which is what youy are actually doing yourself by embracing gender theory.

When the children go on to secondary and this supposed 'girl' goes through puberty and gets to be 6ft at 14 years old - are you expecting the girls in the class to have him play in their team sports and use their toilet facilities?

Or will you be suggesting puberty blockers?

Of course the OP doesn't want anyone to tell her child that sex change is a thing that exists; it isn't.

Yes, it's legal to change your gender. The problem is that gender isn't actually real, and by allowing adults to change their gender we are pretending that gender is a real thing and that society should be organised around it.

That's nice for you. I don't though, as I don't think the Catholic church deserves my respect.
Maybe you should teach your children that respect is earned, not demanded.

But implicit in your discussion is also the conversation about whether they should go along with someone else's idea about themselves - even if it runs contrary to what the child knows and can see with their own eyes.

I remember the thread about the dad who took his daughters swimming, only to find out later that the girls were hiding in toilets to avoid a male person using the womens changing rooms and they didn't want to see his penis.

They were already conditioned to hide and keep quiet about being flashed and intimidated by a male person because they should go along with someone else's idea of themselves instead of keeping themselves safe. That is where all of these ideas of someone changing gender leads us.

I am keen to see how you and others explain to a child how a person 'lives as a different gender'? Is it just that they 'look like' the other gender?

This is the issue here. And yes, point taken that this was not a teacher saying this, but knowledge gained from 'peers' is just as much as an issue.

I echo those posters who suggest this should be treated as if it is a belief that someone has and that it should be respected as much as anyone with that belief. And yes, mention it is a legal fiction. However, this whole narrative around 'lives as a different gender', I am very keen to see this explained in any way that does not revolve around being similar to a belief system.

Because it is logic fail because there is no material definition of 'gender' and it seems to always revolve around 'gender stereotypes' when we are constantly assured that it is not gender stereotypes at all.

My eldest is 6 so this hasn't come up to date. I guess if it came to that, I'd say to follow whatever approach the school took.

But isn't that also suggesting to the seven year old that they must have a gender identity too?

Meh, I was raised catholic and I'd still get my children to address a priest as Father and a nun as Sister - as a sign of basic respect

But implicit in your discussion is also the conversation about whether they should go along with someone else's idea about themselves - even if it runs contrary to what the child knows and can see with their own eyes.

If you suggest to a child they should use pronouns and so on, " to be kind" what do you think that is teaching them about their own perceptions and what they know to be true. Is you child supposed to centre someone else's feelings all of the time?

A child of a similar age ( 10) in my granddaughter's school came back after lockdown declaring she was now a boy. She called her friends transphobic when they misgendered her. This upset and confused them. This girl was expecting different and special treatment; was having it suggested that her feelings come above everyone else's.

If a 7 year old can understand the difference between gender and sex, then great! OP can have a really specific discussion with her 9 year old in that case.

🙄I don't really believe in thumping the table and declaring one side of an argument to be lies, doesn't get you anywhere and your child will very soon stop seeing you as an authority because you take a 'you must believe this' approach when they ask you things.

What happens?

Changing your legal sex is something that is indeed legal but changing your actual sex is not something that ever happens, in any country, because it's not scientifically possible.

Allowing people to change their legal sex has caused huge problems for women's rights and child safeguarding in every country where it is legal.

Pointing this out is not transphobia.

Perhaps you live in one of the countries where people have lost their collective minds and think anyone who doesn't believe humans can change sex is an evil bigot and pat themselves on the back for being so progressive and kind, whilst ignoring the vulnerable women being unable to access single sex rape crisis support, or being raped and assaultsd in prison by male sex offenders who identify as female.

The fact that people in the UK have still got some semblance of a grip on reality and are resisting this does not make them in any way transphobic.

Those older children may well have been taught it. Dc have had a lot on gender at their schools

I’d say it’s easier to combat when it’s not a teacher as that authority lends trust

We cannot change sex and that should be a priority learning

The concept her son brought up was that boys can choose to be girl and vice versa.

I doubt anyone said “you can change your sex” to OP’s son.

If a boy can 'choose to be a girl' that implies that he can change sex. Boys are male, girls are female.

some men choose to live as women and vice versa

Can you explain how a man 'lives as a woman'? What is the difference between a man who lives as a woman and a man who lives as a man?

My point is that people DO choose to live as a different gender, and they can legally identify as the new gender.

What do you mean by 'live as a different gender'? As far as I am aware I don't live as any gender. The concept doesn't make sense to me. Can you explain?

As for being legally recognised as the opposite sex (which is what I think you mean by 'legally identify as the new gender'), some of us think that this should not be possible. It is a political issue which can and should be discussed.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4894537-what-are-your-thoughts-on-repeal-the-gra

Nothing has been said by the school to her children, it came from friends.

This shouldn’t be a “dreaded” topic. It’s an opportunity to share more information and make sure the child has the right understanding.

Children are constantly exposed to different ideas, people etc. It’s our role as parents to make sure our children have the right understanding.

OP, you are entirely right in that you cannot change biological sex. That means that women who transition to trans men won’t produce sperm. Naturally, trans women don’t have wombs. etc.

What is possible, is that people choose to live as a different gender and they can legally change their gender. So they’d look like a woman (if they were born a man) and legally speaking they’d be a woman. However, very few people feel so sad/uncomfortable the way they are so this is very rare. Changing is very difficult, takes time and people have to be sure before they change.

This is the type of thing you can explain to your son.

I've got two children. I think you underestimate children's intelligence tbh. You can discuss things with them in open ended ways and acknowledging where people disagree or don't have all the answers.

You can also explain a concept then say you don't believe in it, we were talking about child chimney sweeps the other day - doesn't mean I agree with it! You can easily say people used to think girls could only do xyz but now attitudes have changed.

Elliot Page has been very open about having been sexually abused as a minor. It's not very difficult to imagine why such an experience might make you want to reject your female body and identity.

I would also be careful what you say about trans people and suicide. The threat of suicide is one which is constantly evoked by trans activists to give the impression that if people with gender dysphoria aren't able to transition they are much more likely to commit suicide. The evidence for this is unreliable at best.

We live in a secular, liberal society. we accept that people come from different cultures but we also expect them to recognise the common culture and the rules and laws of it.

Truth exists. Sex is real. You cannot change sex. These are the common truths of our society. They have significance.

What individuals believe or do in private is their business - and it is up to those who are nearest and dearest to negotiate the nature and rules of the relationship - but these rules cannot be imposed on everyone else.

All of it. You've portrayed objective fact as subjective opinion and vice versa. It's confused nonsense.

Other people think if you were born a boy or girl, that is something you can't change even if you want to change your name or how you dress etc ??

We don't think that, we know that. It's scientific fact, not an opinion, you cannot change your sex. If you are born male you will always be male, no matter what you do.

Don't lie to your child.

But you shouldn't expect or teach the child they have to go along with other people's private beliefs. You can acceot they have them - but they are personal and private to them. Children should not be expected to have to use the articles of faith ( pronouns etc) of someone else's religion.

Can you then explain to your six year old what 'living as a man' and 'how it feels inside' means?

Because if you can explain this clearly to your six year old, could you explain it to me so that it doesn't negate the 'people are completely free to live without sexist stereotypes' and 'it doesn't matter what their body looks like'?

Which bit is a lie?

That's not even true, though.

Introducing the concept that it is posssible to change something you actually cannot change is harmful. Also, it implies to children that they need not develop emotional and psychological resillience. Who goes through life "happy" all of the time, or without struggle? Nobody.

Not identifying as trans doesn't mean you accept all of the guff about gender and are happy with stereotypes. Suggesting in any way to a child that pretending to be the opposite sex might be a good coping strategy for life's struggles is pure negligence. You are settiing them up for a mighty big fall.

At their age they lack the understanding of the difference between sex and gender.

So you think it is possible to change from boy(gender) to girl(gender)?

What's the difference? What changes?

Please explain. I should be able to understand because I'm not 7.