Starmer Radio 5 "A woman is an Adult female"

But don’t you think that it’s wise to be cautious until the definition of “adult female” used by Starmer is absolutely clear? We need to know that he’s not including trans people with a GRC. After all, Robin Moria White is now describing themself as an adult human female.

It took a long time for the Jewish community to trust Labour again, and even then there are still MPs displaying anti semitic rhetoric.

Warm words mean nothing.

I suggest that if you are so disillusioned about the whole movement - then you must have had some serious illusions to bein with?

When someone is clear and determined then they do what is required to achieve that goal - moving one step closer at a time. Voting Labour, as it stands, is not going to bring about that goal.

Most people on the Left of the Labour Party referer to Kier Starmer as a 'right wing stooge'. You can't please Leftists. They're obsessed and self righteous.

What is inherently wrong with being on the right of centre rather than the left of centre, anyway?

The Labour party have not significantly changed their position. They've just changed the phrasing. What is being proposed is still effectively self Id. There has been no significant shift or evidence that they have understood all of the issues. They are still aligned to Stonewall and doing their bidding.

Furthermore, they still have many on their benches who are out and out TWAW and who have referred to women's campaign groups as 'hate groups'. Women have been demonised and excluded for years from local CLPs and trade union branches. No apologies.

My Labour MP refuses to meet with her constituents on this issue and we've ben told " you're wasting your time". Do you really expect people of integrity and serious intent ( on this issue) to vote for any of that?

It is nothing but a PR move - and they seem to think people are stupid enough to fall for it. They give no indication of even understanding what the 'spousal veto' means or implies.

I have no idea how I'm going to vote though. I'm not a tribal voter. I do however trust this 'change' about as third as far as I could throw Mr Starmer.

You can’t say this for other people though.

Maybe for you. But if Starmer isn’t trusted on this that’s up to each voter individually.

This blanket statement doesn’t work.

Have you read the thread?
If you have read it, have you understood it?

If you're still going to vote Tory after the change in the Labour Party's position and statements then you're going to vote Tory anyway.

Which is, you know, PERFECTLY OK. I disagree with you but that's fine, we're in a democracy. I just wish you wouldn't make the whole GC movement look like it's only interest is in using the issue to support right-wing politics. I can't be the only person who's becoming disillusioned with the whole thing.

Without open debate, men like Streeting will continue to prioritise niche sexual right activism, over women and children rights.

The funny thing is, a lot of these men see Streeting as a transphobe, as he once acknowledged that women are female. He's just more pragmatic than they are. And sly. I don't trust him.

From the Spectator 😆

I suppose what im trying to say, is that if Starmer believes sex and gender are different, and women have the right to sse, he needs to remove the mechanism for the two to be confused. If he doesnt, streeting will be in a better position to get back to TWAW , and we are back to square one with men in womens prisons.

Thanks for that.

Thats one other thing we need to take into account. Starmer may believe in womens right to have single sex spaces, but if there is a critical mass of misogyny within the labour party, these young men will take over will be the leaders in the future. Without open debate, men like Streeting will continue to prioritise niche sexual right activism, over women and children rights.

Joining authoritarian facebook group is not something anyone does by accident, and it odd that the labout party is not more questioning of the bizarre claim.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3144285-Labour-Against-Transphobia-Facebook-group

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3149201-Labour-against-transphobia-group-thread-2

Also, how did i miss the news that Wes Streeting kept a note of women who disagreed with the lie?

He was a member of an illegal (because broke data protection law) Facebook group set up by activists, namely Lily Madigan and friends, to purge gender critical feminists from the Labour Party. At one point they had an open google doc spreadsheet of women with their membership numbers etc. I think when challenged later (this was over 5 years ago) he claimed he joined by mistake or something.

Starmer has admitted what was wrong, that confusing sex and gender has lead to men to be housed in womens prisons. But his analysis of how we got there is naive, at best. Probably more of an outright lie.

He seems to think that everyone seeing sex and gender as the same has lead to this, not government policies and laws. He still supports the act that allows sex and gender to be confused - a man with a gender can switch sex on government documents. Thats not public lead or public confusion. Thats a top down lie.

He seems to be blamming society for calling out the lie, not the lie itself.

Also, how did i miss the news that Wes Streeting kept a note of women who disagreed with the lie?

Yes, but that is the SNP, not Labour.

Maybe Scottish Labour feels that it has to continue to support Self Id because it allowed the GRR to pass, last year, without any meaningful amendments.

Should they continue their stance and Labour be elected at the general election how might that play out. It is the Tories who have blocked it, not Labour.

Exactly.

Never understood why admitting you were wrong - and so wiser today than yesterday - is seen as a bad thing and "flip flopping". I'd likemore people to admit they were wrong.

The problem is that Starmer is not really admitting he was wrong. He wants to get self-id in by the back door by letting anyone go to a single doctor. They can choose that doctor themselves, so anyone willing to lie for money. TRAs are quite right that Starmer will probably backtrack on even that minimal safeguard because he just doesnt care about women unless there is a vote in it.

Cant stand Jacob Rees Mogg, being consistently a jerk is not good.

Well I guess the Scottish government are still taking the U.K. government to court over it, so still intending to continue.

What do we make of the declaration by Scottish Labour that they are still in support of Self Id?

What's going on, and how might it play out?

Could it be that Scottish Labour are trying to attract SNP votes ( even though though Self Id was not that popular amongst SNP voters).