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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour canvasser today

610 replies

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 15/07/2023 10:59

I'm in one the constituencies with a by-election coming up.

Just had a labour canvasser (woman, mid/late fifties) knock to ask if I was voting. I said yes I would be.

She asked if I knew who I was voting for. I asked if she knew what a woman was. I told her I was a single issue voter and that was the only issue that was going to decide how I voted.

Her response: "I believe a woman is anyone who believes themself to be a woman".

I told her in that case I have nothing else to say to her, and closed the door.

I would have loved to have actually put some of the issues to her (rapists in prisons, assaults in mixed sex spaces, including schools, destruction of women's sports etc) but my heart was already racing and I knew it would be like talking to a brick wall anyway.

But anyway - at least that's a clear pile in the eye for the whole 'it doesn't come up on the doorstep' nonsense.

So, I'm either voting Tory or SDP.

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TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 18:29

JanesLittleGirl · 18/07/2023 17:53

JW has no influence in government. He sits on the Women and Equalities Select Committee. He was elected to a seat on this committee by secret ballot of Conservative MPs. Members of Select Committees are fiercely independent of Government since their role is to hold the relevant department to account.

So a secret ballot of Tory MPs elected a dodgy as fuck Trans Woke Bro onto Women's and Equalities. What does that tell you about the Tories?

dcbc1234 · 18/07/2023 18:11

BaronMunchausen · 18/07/2023 17:12

Jamie Wallis perhaps took his cue from Family Guy.

Yes that's right. @TooBigForMyBoots I had forgotten about the Sugar Daddy website stuff as well. Again not what I expect in an MP. The only very weak defence to the lack of due diligence from the Welsh Tories in choosing him as their candidate is that they didn't expect him to win in a month of Sundays lol.

JanesLittleGirl · 18/07/2023 17:53

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 17:38

Jamie is textbook TRA. Not only did he plead Trans, his background is dodgy software. The Sugar Daddy website. A service that could clear paedophile records from the Internet and multiple investigations from Trading Standards.

But apparently Jamie's influence in government is irrelevant because he's a Tory.Hmm

JW has no influence in government. He sits on the Women and Equalities Select Committee. He was elected to a seat on this committee by secret ballot of Conservative MPs. Members of Select Committees are fiercely independent of Government since their role is to hold the relevant department to account.

loverains · 18/07/2023 17:45

SirSamVimesCityWatch I did exactly the same. Woman knocked on the door, and I said I was unable to vote for the Labour Party due to their stance on women. She just nodded and walked off. I too would have liked a longer discussion but my heart was racing, it was the first time I'd said anything like that to anyone outside of my family. But it clearly is coming up on the doorstep for them!

Merlinonline · 18/07/2023 17:38

Don't vote Labour because you can bet your bottom dollar that Corbyn will miraculously reappear larger than life all is forgiven and shunting out a Labour PM in a orchestrated party coup! Do we need 4 more years of the dreadful Tories? No, don't spoil your ballot paper make it count, if the Liberals are running in your area (aka not the LibDems) then vote for them or any minority paper apart from the Greens, Make your vote count with a protest vote, it does work and it is the only way to achieve change and a better future, this countries future is not two-party politics!

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 17:38

Jamie is textbook TRA. Not only did he plead Trans, his background is dodgy software. The Sugar Daddy website. A service that could clear paedophile records from the Internet and multiple investigations from Trading Standards.

But apparently Jamie's influence in government is irrelevant because he's a Tory.Hmm

BaronMunchausen · 18/07/2023 17:12

dcbc1234 · 18/07/2023 16:51

I would have expected the local party to de-select him but maybe they feel they can't. Hadn't he also lied about some of his educational qualifications? Fleeing the scene of a crash is not the behaviour we want in our elected representatives regardless of what they are wearing at the time 🙄.

Jamie Wallis perhaps took his cue from Family Guy.

Family Guy - Excuse me, ma'am, no porn at the bar

Season 18 Episode 02: Bri-Da

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OR_D2EEPS4

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 17:01

nonman · 18/07/2023 16:39

That was when he wasn’t PM
the debate has changed and he isn’t afraid to say what a woman is

So, Tory PM Theresa May doesn't matter because she stopped being PM to be followed by Tory PM Boris Johnson. And Tory PM Boris Johnson doesn't matter because he stopped being PM last year. And what Tory PM Sunak said before he was PM doesn't matter because???

After becoming PM, Sunak appointed Gillian I don't know what a girl is Keegan to head of Education. Jamie I know what a woman is cos I'm going to be one. Hey kids, trans early Wallis was appointed to Women's and Equalities.

Can you see what it is yet?

CaptainBatEars · 18/07/2023 16:52

RebelliousCow · 18/07/2023 05:41

Personally think you should loook at your actual candidates for MP; interrogate them thoroughly on issues you consider most important. If they align, you like them, they are hard working and you think they have integrity then vote for them - regardless of party.

That's going to be my approach going forward. Your MP is there to represent you. Don't vote for a party out of a sense of tribal attachment and habit.

My Labour MP is not someone who I have any affinity with; she refuses to meet with her constituents if they don't align with her ideology. How could I possibly vote for her in good faith?

If there is no candidate I can respect and trust then I'll spoil my ballot.

The current political landscape is so thoroughly depressing. I went to see my MP back in 2018 about the issues with the self-ID proposals his party was proposing to introduce (had thread on here at the time under different name). He agreed with my concerns and promised to put me in touch with the party lead on equalities to discuss further. Never heard anything further.

Every election since then, I've emailed all candidates standing in my constituency asking for them to explain how they'll guarantee sex-based rights for women including protecting single sex spaces. Never had a reply from any of them.

As a result, I've spoilt my ballot ever since whilst making it clear why I'm not voting for any of the candidates. I'll be doing the same next election unless any of the candidates come back to me explaining how they will indeed protect my rights.

dcbc1234 · 18/07/2023 16:51

Pluvia · 18/07/2023 16:43

Jamie Wallis will be gone in 2024. Bridgend isn't the kind of place where his behaviour is appreciated.

I would have expected the local party to de-select him but maybe they feel they can't. Hadn't he also lied about some of his educational qualifications? Fleeing the scene of a crash is not the behaviour we want in our elected representatives regardless of what they are wearing at the time 🙄.

Pluvia · 18/07/2023 16:43

Jamie Wallis will be gone in 2024. Bridgend isn't the kind of place where his behaviour is appreciated.

nonman · 18/07/2023 16:39

That was when he wasn’t PM
the debate has changed and he isn’t afraid to say what a woman is

SunnyEgg · 18/07/2023 16:39

It’s obvious Labour are worse on this issue.

Which is why those pp who are anti Tory as anything still won’t vote for them.

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 16:35

nonman · 18/07/2023 16:20

that was two years ago there’s a different PM in charge who is happy to say a woman is an adult human female.

PM Sunak will say whatever. He blows with the wind on this.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4517255-JHB-asks-Rishi-Sunak-what-is-a-woman

JHB asks Rishi Sunak 'what is a woman?' | Mumsnet

Rishi Sunak can't tell her. He agrees with what the PM said, but can't actually recall the words and say something similar himself. What is WRONG w...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4517255-JHB-asks-Rishi-Sunak-what-is-a-woman

dcbc1234 · 18/07/2023 16:30

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 14:47

I think it's two: SDP and the Communist Party.

Okay then if you insist, maybe Alba too but I don't support Scottish Independence.
What I think voters deserve is, at least one mainstream UK political party capable of forming a Government, which respects biological reality and hence child safeguarding and mens and women's EXISTING sex-based rights.

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 16:26

Rudderneck · 17/07/2023 01:58

And look, Jaime Wallis is irrelevant. He is a joke, has no power, will never influence policy. He will be lucky to get reelected. It's embarrassing that he keeps being brought up as a counter to the fact that the LP is almost totally captured, with some of it's best and most prominent MPs saying that male rapists who identify as women should be in woman's prisons - and in fact seem to actually believe it.

Jamie Wallis is already influencing policy. PM Sunak put Jamie into the Women's and Equalities so he could influence policy.

nonman · 18/07/2023 16:20

that was two years ago there’s a different PM in charge who is happy to say a woman is an adult human female.

nonman · 18/07/2023 15:36

I know what my Tory MPs take on it is, fortunately I won’t be voting for him as he is standing down in the next election, I’m optimistic that his successor will be supportive of women’s rights and I will be voting.

SunnyEgg · 18/07/2023 15:07

AgathaSpencerGregson · 18/07/2023 12:33

Agree re migration in Europe. There needs to be some honesty there and here about the incompatibility of current international human rights obligations enforced by an activist court (which is what we have in the ECHR) and effective migration control. Or we don’t control it and take the consequences.

Yes the system we have won’t work much longer.

There’s a lot of people invested in keeping as it is, I was listening to a couple earlier. Climate on the oth doesn’t stop for that.

It’ll be a tussle but it will change.

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 14:47

dcbc1234 · 18/07/2023 14:12

This yes agreed and the rest of the TWAW lot too. We have to have at least one political party in the UK where it is considered the norm to accept the constraints of biological reality.

I think it's two: SDP and the Communist Party.

RealityFan · 18/07/2023 14:28

morningtoncrescent62 · 18/07/2023 14:18

Were the more "reed in the wind" candidates male or female, or a mix?

Almost exactly half and half.

How did they react to you pushing your line? No debate, exasperation, indignation, felt you were a phobe and the "wrong sort"?

I didn't pick up any "you're a transphobe" vibes from any of them. Some of them sounded vaguely exasperated that I was asking them to talk about something a) they didn't think was important, and b) they knew they didn't know about. One asked for feedback, and asked me what would have been a better answer (which I got the impression he would use with anyone else who asked a similar question, anything to get votes). No-one went in hard with TWAW-there-is-no-debate, although with the ones who went straight into telling me that trans people are the most oppressed ever I didn't bother pressing them - I knew they'd lost my vote in a single sentence.

How did you feel about them? Why do you think they've ended up this way? The party machine, trans prevalence in their politics and social circle? Full on indoctrinated?

I think 'no-debate' has a lot to do with it. This issue does take some serious thinking about, and talking about in order to land somewhere sensible. Most Labour candidates have had no chance to talk through the complexities, and so they don't realise that there's a conflict of rights which Labour has no way of addressing at the moment. They simply hear the rhetoric, they hear that only nasty Tories could possibly think trans women are men, and in a cost of living crisis they decide to focus on something else less fraught and (apparently) more urgent.

Sounds about right. I'm afraid this is par for the course in politics, public life generally.

How much light as opposed to heat have we had on Brexit? Racialised politics? The environment?

I can't think of many politicians or public figures who are really across their briefs on multiple fronts.

And in the No Debate mantra on trans activism, there's almost no need to inform yourself. The party tells you that any dissent is transphobia, that's all you have to parrot to your activists and colleagues.

Except this doesn't work with the public. And deffo not the majority who are at the very least, moderately GC.

nonman · 18/07/2023 14:20

TooBigForMyBoots · 18/07/2023 14:02

Optimim isn't going to cut it, you need to ask and get an answer.

I have asked which is why I know that my current MP is TWAW and one of his potential successors is GC

morningtoncrescent62 · 18/07/2023 14:18

Were the more "reed in the wind" candidates male or female, or a mix?

Almost exactly half and half.

How did they react to you pushing your line? No debate, exasperation, indignation, felt you were a phobe and the "wrong sort"?

I didn't pick up any "you're a transphobe" vibes from any of them. Some of them sounded vaguely exasperated that I was asking them to talk about something a) they didn't think was important, and b) they knew they didn't know about. One asked for feedback, and asked me what would have been a better answer (which I got the impression he would use with anyone else who asked a similar question, anything to get votes). No-one went in hard with TWAW-there-is-no-debate, although with the ones who went straight into telling me that trans people are the most oppressed ever I didn't bother pressing them - I knew they'd lost my vote in a single sentence.

How did you feel about them? Why do you think they've ended up this way? The party machine, trans prevalence in their politics and social circle? Full on indoctrinated?

I think 'no-debate' has a lot to do with it. This issue does take some serious thinking about, and talking about in order to land somewhere sensible. Most Labour candidates have had no chance to talk through the complexities, and so they don't realise that there's a conflict of rights which Labour has no way of addressing at the moment. They simply hear the rhetoric, they hear that only nasty Tories could possibly think trans women are men, and in a cost of living crisis they decide to focus on something else less fraught and (apparently) more urgent.

dcbc1234 · 18/07/2023 14:12

AgathaSpencerGregson · 18/07/2023 13:54

I think it’s more likely to be true of Tory than lib dem or Labour candidates but I’d put it no higher than that.
mike Freer should fuck off to the Lib Dems and take that appalling nokes woman with him.

This yes agreed and the rest of the TWAW lot too. We have to have at least one political party in the UK where it is considered the norm to accept the constraints of biological reality.