Genuine question - is it mostly biological women who have reservations about the trans movement?

Every single man I know things it's lunacy that men are being allowed into women's spaces.

I wouldn't mind so much if someone had had lower half removal/reconstruction surgery, but if they are as born then no, I don't think women-only spaces are for them.

I may be an outlier but I do not feel differently if a man has had the various surgeries. He is still a man. He has had a male upbringing. He may be a lovely lovely person, but he does not belong in spaces that have been set aside for women. There is the problem of the male gaze, even if that male denies his manhood, that would make me uncomfortable.

Why must women accept that they may have to be uncomfortable to placate a man with issues?

I've been very relieved to see the number of men who now get the issue and are speaking out. I was incredibly disappointed in the predominantly male dominated sporting bodies from the IOC to the local cycling club busily handing over women's sport to mediocre males. Supportive men like Ross Tucker helped to restore my faith and I'm now watching with pleasure as these men are (slowly) being told NO.

I think this is quite a shrewd comment.

My observation is that some men find themselves highly motivated by the opportunity to scold women and demonstrate how right on they are.

A lot / possibly a majority of men adopt a “nothing to do with me guv” or a “why is isn’t such an issue?” position.

And a minority are willing to say something, and those that are willing to say something have some form of skin in the game - either they are gay, or they are a parent with a child in the age range being targeted.

There was a survey a while back that asked about transpeople using various types of single-sex space (of the opposite sex - so women asked about transwomen sharing their space, men asked about transmen sharing), and then repeated the question after explaining that most transpeople haven't had surgery. I don't remember the exact details but for virtually all of the pre-explanation questions women were more likely than men to say they were OK with it (more than half for all questions, I think, whereas men were below half for almost all). Post-explananion, both groups were considerably less positive about the idea in all situations.

I think those who are active on the women's rights side are more often women than men, but certainly not exclusively. And there are far too many women on the anti-women side, some of them very vocal.

Men and lesbians are concerned about getting a nasty surprise when dating (especially if they are insecure in their sexuality). Gen z may be less concerned as they are more likely to identify with being pansexual.

You would think parents would be more against as less likely to have grandchildren after surgery but this doesn't necessarily seem to be the case.probably if they think the alternative is suicide

Son’s?
That what their are worried about?
Why?
What about girls/daughters?

Yes it would seem so. Although I have a few gay friends who are also quite vocal

Go back just five years and the average person thought that transwomen had all or were going to remove their penises. Also very prevalent at the time was the belief in the "wrong brain" idea. That latter somewhat subsided but still cropping up.

This has been one of the biggest psyops on a population I have ever seen. It's absolutely been stage managed by some powerful individuals and interests. Nothing happens this quickly and this universally without it being engineered. Growing porn addiction laid a lot of the ground work for this, but there's more.

@OldGardinia my comment is misandrist? Huh, ok then.

My comment was referencing the many many men like Owen Jones, Ben Hunte, Peter Tatchell, politicians like Starmer, Biden, and many others on the centre and left, celebrities like Dan Radcliffe, Sam Smith, the CEO of Wickes (!), the chap who runs Lush, etc etc etc. They're not afraid of trans women and acting for self preservation alone. And yes, I think a lot of men lack the ability to properly empathise with women. Even if they have wives and daughters!

Jazz Jennings has a dad and brothers who are totally on board and right with the programme, it's not just the mother. Jackie Green had a dad who was massively homophobic and upset by any transgression of gender norms. He also did nothing to stop the mother from her course of action when he could have done so. It's not just women creating these trans children.

I tell people that I don't say "biological women" for the same reason I don't say "geometric triangles". I got that from here and have been merrily using it since. :)

Anyway, I've read the replies now and it's as I expected. Mostly pretty positive posts about men and a few scattered like the one I quoted that suggests men just don't empathise or care because it doesn't affect them or out of some idea that men will support transwomen out of some male solidarity thing (lol no!)

One thing I'd like to add is that it's not only about physical threat. One thing I have observed to be a definite phenomenon is that a woman will be attacked far more than a man for saying the same thing. A woman will get called a terf and dogpiled online. A man will not or far less so. That's something I couldn't fail to notice and absolutely the case. That's the observation. The reason is speculation but I'm fairly sure it's rooted in deep resentment and anger towards women.

There are many women (biological females) who support trans ideology. And although they mainly seem to be of a more left wing ideology, we know that the WI and other more conservative women's organisation who have accepted and even promote that TWAW.

Most disheartening is the fact that some women's group who provide services to women who have been victims of male violence also support being trans inclusive. On this thread here you will see that one of the largest world wide women's network has written a letter to the UN saying that the woman appointed to raise concerns about violence against women should be reprimanded for not being trans inclusive! https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4829500-please-support-reem-alsalem

But I think it is that biological women were the first to raise concerns that what had seemed like a very small group of men who might want to transition, had become a very powerful movement. And that far from prioritising how best to help people with genuine body dysmophia, had become a movement that seemed intent on taking aways women's rights. To the extent that women just asking for everyday respect and dignity eg changing rooms and toilets, were then seen as out of date dinasours.

IMO one of the reasons the trans movement became, and still is, so powerful, is that trans activism which focused on telling women they were in the wrong, became a platform that men's rights activists could then use to attack women.

Me too. I was fine with self i.d. and shared loos until it suddenly ballooned in the last year or two and now randon blokes who like lipstick (Eddie Izzard) are pretending they're women.

I know women and men who are vociferously anti-Rowling and pro separating spaces according to gender rather than sex, also transmen (i.e. women) .

I find it sad because they're people I admire and whose views on other issues I share on the whole.

I think generally speaking, people who don't believe in gender essentialism can see through it, as to us the only differences between males and females are biological ones based on reproductive functions.

My DH is a feminist and finds the essentialism of 'trans women are women' risible; he's sympathetic to GC women and is against trans women competing in women's sports, though I don't think he fully realises how difficult life can be for women or how much privilege he has as a male.

Most men are not happy that their wife/girlfriend/daughter may not be safe in what should be a female only place. A while ago I was happy with the very rare men (identifying as women) who are more comfortable in women spaces, but now it seems to be any pervert can get in without any question, so the pendulum has swung far to far.

Guess that the most accurate might be "XXX is living as a woman"?

How do you live as a woman?

I think men are more likely to think it’s all bs but unless they enjoy a fight like Brendan O’Neill or Ricky Gervais they’re not going to get vocal about it.

I'm fairly sure what a lot of the answers on this thread are going to be and I think that someone will probably disagree with mine. But I think no. I haven't read all the replies so far which I'll do next, but I got to the second and had to reply:

"Well men don't have to worry about any of the possible consequences and many don't really care much about the outcomes for women either. "

This is such a false world view. A man may not be directly threatened by a transwoman typically (though you might be shocked how physically aggressive a transwoman can be - of the ones I have known personally, one did time for GBH after beating up the boyfriend of a girl he fancied, another has certainly assaulted other men - and that's just out of the few I've had in my social circle over the years). But more to the point, do you think men care nothing for their kids or their partners? To suggest that men don't have to worry because it's not them who are (typically) most at risk is to say men have no empathy.

The comment is... you know what I was about to write the opposite of whatever misogynistic is when I realised I didn't actually know. That's how rarely the opposite is called out. Misandrist? I feel that's more just general people. In any case, it's an incredibly disparaging comment on men.

Anecdotal but honestly I have had WAY more arguments with women who support the trans movement than with men who do. Not none, certainly not that. I have spent a fair bit of time in America and the American Left and Democrat supporters were really big on the whole TWAW incl. the men. But on the whole, and again anecdotal, the whole "be kind" movement and TWAW is more women than men.

And regards trans in kids, it was Suzie Green who had her son castrated, It was Jazz Jenning's mom who didn't want a gay son and led him down the path of fame and misfortune as a "trans" kid. Desmond Is Amazing had a mom who pushed him down this path, too. There's a very real problem of mothers who push their sons to be trans. I don't know if it's some pathological need for their child to be special or some deep-seated resentment at the idea of their child being male due to whatever issues they have. But it's an observable phenomenon. And I know of more than one tragic case of a father desperately trying to get custody of a young child (male or female) who is with the mother and going down a trans pathway way before they are even close to puberty.

It's not only unhelpful to make this a man v. women thing, I genuinely think it's very false.

Plus, as I alluded to earlier, without meaning to take away at all from the fact that women ARE more in danger than men, not all men are big, rough dudes. And transwomen are typically very aggressive in general. At least in my experience. I see a couple around town and they're both around six foot and one in particular has a jaw like Fred Flintsone.

But lets set aside my last point, it detracts from my more important one - men are people too and care too. Empathy is a human characteristic.

Okay, going to read the other replies now and see how my expectations have matched up.

None of the men I speak to support the gender agenda loonies.

Unfortunately some women I have spoken with, do.

We have to stand up for science in the face of unscientific belief systems, and that includes religions and cults like trans ideology.

I think your assessment is generally accurate, however I am firmly middle class, most of my family, friends, school parents are, they are a mix of male and female all think it's horrifying and actively post about it or sign petitions, donate to crowd funders, I only know 1 person that is part of the be kind brigade, and even she agree with me on many points, I just don't think she really thinks about it much.
My DHs family are all pretty much working class and again all of them male and female, have started making noise, challenging schools etc.. so for me personally class and sex don't come into it, however I notice more of the trend you suggested on SM.

I think the women who oppose gender identity ideology are more vocal but polling shows there are more women than men who support this nonsense because they think it's progressive (as pp said, usually not in any danger of using a refuge or being put in a prison with these male people) and think they can consent on our behalf. The #bekind effect on female socialisation. The men who support it are invariably awful though.

This. I'm shocked at the number of left-wing men who are more than happy to give away women's rights and call us transphobic for not wanting men in women's prisons or men in women's sports, when they have NO SKIN IN THE GAME and NOTHING TO LOSE. Drives me mad. They can all fuck off.

In my experience men are more likely to be skeptical than women. But a lot won't say anything unless you ask them directly.

I wonder if the sports issues are more relatable to men who take part in sports than toilets.