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Fears Rishi Sunak will renege on promise to clarify definition of biological sex

290 replies

IwantToRetire · 05/06/2023 00:29

Rishi Sunak is facing calls to make a public “cast iron guarantee” to follow through on a pledge to rewrite equality law to protect women, amid Tory MPs’ fears that he will renege on his promise.

Conservative backbenchers are planning to challenge Maria Caulfield, the minister for women, to give an undertaking in the Commons that Mr Sunak will deliver on his promised legal changes to ensure that “mothers and women are not erased from public life”.

Sources close to the Prime Minister insist he remains committed to the pledge, with one saying that the Government is carefully considering advice from the Equality and Human Rights Commission on the matter and another saying, “It’s certainly not being delayed or dropped”.

But senior Tories fear that the party will lose its opportunity to change the law if Mr Sunak fails to act swiftly ahead of an election next year.

One backbencher said: “There is a debate within government about whether this is a hill to die on and it’s unclear how much of a row the Government wants, doing this in the run-up to an election. But if they can’t say what a woman is by the time we go into an election we’re in trouble.”

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A Telegraph article reprinted by Yahoo Fears Rishi Sunak will renege on promise to clarify definition of biological sex (yahoo.com)

I wonder at the motive of the DT for pursuing this (not complaining just wondering)

Also confused:
Maria Caulfied is not the Minister for Women see https://www.gov.uk/government/people/maria-caulfield
Kemi Badenoch is the Minister for Women https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/minister-for-women-and-equalities--3

Wonder why the article refers to MC as being the one who should ask Sunak in the House of Commons to clarify. Is there some signifigance in this that I dont understand?

OP posts:
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Chersfrozenface · 05/06/2023 17:31

The title in brackets specifies what kind of Parliamentary Under Secretary of State she is. There are others with similar titles, such as the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Minister for Primary Care and Public Health).

it's the government website that uses the title "Minister for Women", which I'm sure is why the MP's are using it. I assume that giving people the title "Minister for" means they can ask questions of the PM with the same authority as the Minister who heads the whole department.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 05/06/2023 17:22

On Maria Caulfield's profile it says "Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Minister for Women)". This is a post under the Minister for Women and Equalities, Kemi Badenoch.

Exactly she isn't the Minister for Women! Strange error for the Telegraph to make, but also doesn't explain why she is thought to be the one to ask the question.

Or in terms of party politics is it not the done thing for a Minister to question their PM?

OP posts:
Beowulfa · 05/06/2023 14:47

The Conservatives are the most successful party in UK political history. Voting for them is actually completely normal for much of the country.

I have never given them my vote, but I am amused by those who think doing so is deviant, freakish behaviour rather than something actually quite ordinary.

LardyDee · 05/06/2023 14:31

Leafstamp · 05/06/2023 12:54

Yes, 100%.

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Grim

Leafstamp · 05/06/2023 12:54

cuckyplunt · 05/06/2023 08:03

Christ, you guys would really vote Tory, just because of this?

Yes, 100%.

potniatheron · 05/06/2023 12:41

cuckyplunt · 05/06/2023 08:03

Christ, you guys would really vote Tory, just because of this?

Why would I vote for a party that claims it cannot deny what I am?

To use an unrelated example let's say that I was Black Caribbean and the Lib Dems said in an interview that it was very difficult to define what a Black Caribbean person was, that in fact it's more of a feeling, an identification, and anyone who says they are Black Caribbean is Black Carribbean. I'd be quite ticked off by that. I certainly wouldn't vote for the Lib Dems that's for sure.

FigRollsAlly · 05/06/2023 12:27

Hannahsbananas · 05/06/2023 12:11

I’m convinced it’s the weasel wording of the poll questions. Lots of people don’t really grasp the full implications of what they’re saying yes to.

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I’d definitely agree that the wording is key and that previous surveys have used confusing wording but the Express says the survey was done for Sex Matters and I think Maya would make sure that there was no room for ambiguity.

Heliotroper · 05/06/2023 12:25

I just want them to do it, put it before Parliament, I can make my mind up on who is worth voting for after their vote.

HandBall · 05/06/2023 12:21

flyingbuttress43 · 05/06/2023 12:08

TBH I am surprised that the support for trans women in female spaces is as high as it is.

Do they think it's a woman identify as a man or general sport?

actual logic was ridiculous and made us sound like a washing powder 🙂. Organs washing powder

Hannahsbananas · 05/06/2023 12:11

flyingbuttress43 · 05/06/2023 12:08

TBH I am surprised that the support for trans women in female spaces is as high as it is.

I’m convinced it’s the weasel wording of the poll questions. Lots of people don’t really grasp the full implications of what they’re saying yes to.

flyingbuttress43 · 05/06/2023 12:08

TBH I am surprised that the support for trans women in female spaces is as high as it is.

OhHolyJesus · 05/06/2023 10:51

The Telegraph coverage has been great though I struggle to get archive articles sometimes.

Here is something from the Express which is more accessible.

Campaigners reveal in new poll majority of Britons want trans ban in female spaces | UK | News | Express.co.uk

"Ahead of a parliamentary debate on the Equality Act, campaigners say protections against sex discrimination and provisions for single-sex spaces must relate to biological gender, not the sex people identify as."

I can't wait for the debate next Mon, I'm not going to get any work done!

The full poll results are here and there is a short series of blogs on why the EA needs clarity and I've signed up for the webinar on Thurs which is about the debate.

You can still write to your MP about it too.

Right now: write to your MP about the debate - Sex Matters (sex-matters.org)

Majority of Britons want trans ban in female spaces

Human rights campaign group Sex matters reveals thoughts on 'inclusion' as fewer than one in three Britons believe transwomen should be allowed in female sports and toilets.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1777262/transgender-women-female-spaces-sex-matters-campaigners-poll

oldwhyno · 05/06/2023 10:44

100% a vote decider for me. At the moment we can't completely rely on either party doing what's necessary, but the balance of odds is heavily in Tory favour a at the moment. But we do need them to make a much stronger pledge on this, and be held accountable for it.

Signalbox · 05/06/2023 10:18

I think this is the Telegraph giving Sunak a poke. I was recently given access to the Telegraph online and it's been interesting to see how the leader writers attempt to shape Tory policy.

This makes more sense. They need a push in the right direction.

Eatstootsandleaves · 05/06/2023 09:33

I think this is the Telegraph giving Sunak a poke. I was recently given access to the Telegraph online and it's been interesting to see how the leader writers attempt to shape Tory policy. The Telegraph has almost daily articles on trans issues: they know it's a vote-winner for the Tories and that Sunak needs to reform the EA2010 and tackle the legal fictions of the GRA.

Now that Baroness Falkner has seen off the civil service TRAs perhaps things can proceed more quickly.

SunnyEgg · 05/06/2023 09:22

Ourladycheesusedatum · 05/06/2023 08:05

Drive by scolding?

Yes, we will vote Tory because of this. Hth

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Ha at drive by scolding by Labour / Lib Dem supporter

Floisme · 05/06/2023 09:13

I don't remember any promise but what I do remember is people with more expertise than me saying that, because this is a clarification of an existing law, the government could quite legitimately make the change straight away, that there was no need to wait until the election. This was maybe 2 or 3 months ago.

DoTrollsShitInTheThreads · 05/06/2023 09:13

It was discussed on gb news, headliners from the telegraph newspaper. Rishi to clarify woman means biological woman. I remember because the presenters were saying that having to use the word biological to get back to actual logic was ridiculous and made us sound like a washing powder 🙂.

Freysimo · 05/06/2023 08:57

Yes, I'd vote Conservative. I'm 73 and women's rights are important to me.

FrancescaContini · 05/06/2023 08:49

DO IT, Rishi, FGS

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/06/2023 08:45

There is already a thread, linking to join them up www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4819762-fears-rishi-sunak-will-renege-on-promise-to-clarify-definition-of-biological-sex

SomeonesRealName · 05/06/2023 08:42

Yes and there is no “just” about it.

teawamutu · 05/06/2023 08:36

cuckyplunt · 05/06/2023 08:03

Christ, you guys would really vote Tory, just because of this?

With a heavy heart, yes.

If Labour would like my vote instead, they can have it by doing the same thing.

It's very simple but the Left seems yet to grasp that it's their job to win women's votes; not ours to be kind and hand them (along with our basic rights) over meekly.