Page 4 | Why are the filmmakers of Affirmation Generation anonymous

socialmedia23 · 2023-02-21T22:46:36+00:00

DH was actually becoming very convinced by their arguments but then he asked me what was the source? This was triggered by the fact that there was footage of Helen Joyce on GB News. I actually found this documentary on Mumsnet so I didn't actually know. We stopped watching halfway and we did a deep dive into the people behind the documentary DH has always been very insistent that he needs to establish the provenance of all the news sources/media that he consumes in order to ensure that they are not fake news sources. Since we can't find anything, he is now convinced that the entire documentary is garbage since we can't establish who is behind them and from what we can surmise, it seems to be a group of mothers of trans kids (many of whom are keeping their identities anonymous). Is it that necessary for them to be so discreet regarding their identities? There is also little coverage of this documentary, which lessens its credibility in DH's eyes. I feel like a lot of people may think like DH and this would mean that an excellent documentary doesn't reach its intended audience. I feel sad because i was really enjoying the documentary and i felt like i was learning so much but then it is overshadowed by the fact that I don't actually know who is behind it! Dh might sound very unreasonable in what kind of media he permits himself to watch but that is because he attended an ultra orthodox jewish school as a child (where he was told many untrue things) and had a father who was a bit of a conspiracy theorist so he has learnt this way of filtering information (only read news and consume media from reputable sources). I tried to explain to Dh that they are keeping their identities anonymous foe fear of losing their jobs. However at the same time, doesn't that mean the whole argument isn't as convincing and isn't the point of the documentary to educate? To be fair to DH, he does say he will read Helena Barnes' book about the Tavistock Clinic (recommended by FT) and maybe he will then be ready to watch this documentary...

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 09:40

Oh you’re back OP

now about mastectomies for teenagers

pro or anti?

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 09:29

Helleofabore · 22/02/2023 08:57

The ‘unsourced’ bit is a logical fail, it really is.

So much of that documentary is of the original sources recounting their stories. Why the need for the film makers to be ‘verified’?

A person who was interested would simply look up the people speaking and check them out….

The documentary is not about who made it. It is about what was said on it. It is about each and every speaker on it.

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Kinda like how you shouldn't let your opinions on Brexit be based solely on a documentary which interviews some people saying that they 'lost' their jobs because eastern Europeans are cheaper and where some fisherman are giving interviews on how fishing quotas are so very dreadful.

OP posts:

FOJN · 22/02/2023 09:11

Plus the Tory Party/republicans do have a reputation of starting culture wars in a bid to hide their own incompetence.

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. The left is trying to start a cultural revolution and characterising the resistance of the political right as "starting a culture war". Many (if not the majority) of posters here lean left but we are not so tribal or stupid we can't recognise that its the left attempts to stifle debate that is the problem.

Your repeated questions about why this isn't more mainstream do come across as disingenuous. Anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes reading around the issue both understands and is alarmed by the aggressive and sometime violent silencing tactics of TRA's. People have been threatened, lost jobs and been arrested for stating facts, if you have bills to pay you will be very careful where you air your views.

Helleofabore · 22/02/2023 08:57

Anactor · 22/02/2023 08:47

Well, that tells us the TRA line on Affirmation Generation, doesn’t it?

Catch 22 indeed. Reveal your names and get hate mail, death threats and people trying to get you fired. Stay anonymous and your work is ‘garbage’ because it’s‘unsourced’.

The ‘unsourced’ bit is a logical fail, it really is.

So much of that documentary is of the original sources recounting their stories. Why the need for the film makers to be ‘verified’?

A person who was interested would simply look up the people speaking and check them out….

The documentary is not about who made it. It is about what was said on it. It is about each and every speaker on it.

Helleofabore · 22/02/2023 08:51

Here OP. This link can asnswer several questions.

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/video/

It talks about the documentary ‘Trans Kids – It’s Time to Talk’ by Olli Lambert and Stella O’Malley. You might need to find your own link to that if you are not in the UK and cannot access the archives of Channel 4.

It is well worth watching.

And it is well worth reading / listening to Olli’s experience in putting it together because it highlights what was happening and still happening now.

Anactor · 22/02/2023 08:47

Well, that tells us the TRA line on Affirmation Generation, doesn’t it?

Catch 22 indeed. Reveal your names and get hate mail, death threats and people trying to get you fired. Stay anonymous and your work is ‘garbage’ because it’s‘unsourced’.

Helleofabore · 22/02/2023 08:43

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 08:27

Well what I am trying to say is that I am wondering why such a documentary hasn't been picked up by a news organisation who would keep the identities of these women s

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And what news agency would do that?

And by bringing the documentary to the wider public, means there is more pressure for extremists to then dox this involved. So would in the end mean exposure.

And if the film needed to be ‘premiered’ at local events, well we know how that goes. Protests and abuse.

No. The makers want their privacy, that needs to be respected. So much so that they have not even chosen a spokesperson who can run with it. I was all for the film makers of the Adult Human Female documentary going on as wide a range of media as they could as they were promoting it. This documentary is a different matter.

picklemewalnuts · 22/02/2023 08:37

I started out prepared to give OP the benefit of the doubt, but by a couple of posts in I agree with the others.

There is plenty of thoroughly accredited information out there. Plenty of public cases of people who have taken universities to court for preventing reasonable research and bullying out non compliant staff. Plenty of trans and detrans people brave enough to publicly stand by their experiences.

These particular people need to protect their families and their livelihood. No one will tell you any more.

Helleofabore · 22/02/2023 08:36

I am surprised to hear someone dismiss this documentary as ‘garbage’ when I didn’t see one thing in it that isn’t already documented somehow. That says more about your husband than anything else really.

If he has concerns about the information in the documentary, he can very easily look it up. The clinicians have their work widely available. I believe that some of the detransitioners are known. I mean it is not hard to check as most of them seemed to be early social media influencers.

I suspect OP, that your husband was not really ‘open’ to learning more if he dismissed it as you say he did. He could very easily verify a great deal of that documentary within a short time.

Expecting people to list their names on something that could expose their families to harm is a pretty crap base line when the information given is already out there for the finding.

NotBadConsidering · 22/02/2023 08:32

Plus the Tory Party/republicans do have a reputation of starting culture wars in a bid to hide their own incompetence. I am an immigrant and they did it a few years ago about immigration. After Brexit, it may be that they are starting it about trans people. That could still be the case even if the documentary is 100% true

Actually in this case the opposite is true. TRAs and the militant Left loudly proclaim a culture war is being started on this issue as means to distract from the fact everything in the documentary is 100% true.

If the documentary is 100% true - and it is - the motives of those trying to draw attention to it shouldn’t matter. The only thing that should matter is what to do about the content revealed. If people are trying to draw attention away from it by screaming “you’re just trying to start a culture war!” I would have serious concerns about the motives of these people, who are trying to deny it’s happening and don’t want anyone to talk about it. Why do they want that?

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 22/02/2023 08:31

If your husband isn’t capable of making up his own mind about a documentary without knowing the director’s backstory he could watch this one instead:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishnavi_Sundar

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 08:30

Dunno love

I’ve provided links to get your started

why don’t you do some reading around?

Come back and tell me if you think slicing the tits off teenage girls is a good idea

I’ll wait

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 08:27

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 08:24

No one here wants or needs to convince you of anything

you seem to be trying to convince people of something, but let’s leave that to one side

i haven’t seen the film in question, but if you’re wondering whether unquestioningly agreeing with children that they are members of the opposite sex is a good idea, you may wish to read reviews of Hannah Barne’s book ‘time to think’, several are linked here

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4742637-the-hannah-barnes-book

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Well what I am trying to say is that I am wondering why such a documentary hasn't been picked up by a news organisation who would keep the identities of these women s

OP posts:

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 08:25

I’m not interested in telling you what to think, chum

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 08:24

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 08:18

Being new to the trans issue, I am trying to establish if it's one of those us Vs them kind of issues. I tend to regard these issues with a bit of hesitance as often the truth is much more nuanced..

Phrases like 'lunatic sect' honestly don't convince me.

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No one here wants or needs to convince you of anything

you seem to be trying to convince people of something, but let’s leave that to one side

i haven’t seen the film in question, but if you’re wondering whether unquestioningly agreeing with children that they are members of the opposite sex is a good idea, you may wish to read reviews of Hannah Barne’s book ‘time to think’, several are linked here

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4742637-the-hannah-barnes-book

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 08:18

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 08:11

Oh the wide eyed innocence

do you know what I hate? People who dishonestly try to manipulate me

pisses me right off

Being new to the trans issue, I am trying to establish if it's one of those us Vs them kind of issues. I tend to regard these issues with a bit of hesitance as often the truth is much more nuanced..

Phrases like 'lunatic sect' honestly don't convince me.

OP posts:

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 08:17

OP

questioning is good, but lose the lengthy made up back story next time

just say what you mean. It’s much less likely to set people’s teeth on edge

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 08:12

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 01:26

Is your husband a bit thick? It’s clear why the people involved in the documentary haven’t released their personal information. I find it astounding that he was convinced of the content but then rejected it all as ‘garbage’ half way through. Are you in the UK? That’s a v US phraseology. There are plenty of other documentary sources and indeed published books, such as Trans and Irreversible Harm your husband could look at. Sorry OP but there is a disingenuous quality about your post that makes me feel it hasn’t been written in good faith.

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Plus the Tory Party/republicans do have a reputation of starting culture wars in a bid to hide their own incompetence. I am an immigrant and they did it a few years ago about immigration. After Brexit, it may be that they are starting it about trans people. That could still be the case even if the documentary is 100% true..

OP posts:

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 22/02/2023 08:11

Oh the wide eyed innocence

do you know what I hate? People who dishonestly try to manipulate me

pisses me right off

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 08:10

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 01:26

Is your husband a bit thick? It’s clear why the people involved in the documentary haven’t released their personal information. I find it astounding that he was convinced of the content but then rejected it all as ‘garbage’ half way through. Are you in the UK? That’s a v US phraseology. There are plenty of other documentary sources and indeed published books, such as Trans and Irreversible Harm your husband could look at. Sorry OP but there is a disingenuous quality about your post that makes me feel it hasn’t been written in good faith.

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Surely calling people who are asking questions about the issues (and don't have a lot of knowledge about it) isn't the best way of convincing people...

Believe it or not, a lot of people may not have any meaningful contact with trans people, let alone detransitioners. Or children diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

OP posts:

Original poster

socialmedia23 · 22/02/2023 08:07

Datun · 22/02/2023 01:34

Op, no-one here is going to give you any confidential information about the people in the film.

I think we are used to watching documentaries about controversial topics and it is often backed up a film production company and yes there would always be people out there who would disagree (and perhaps show their protest using illegal methods). But if it is a subject of so much interest (and it is a well made film with many reputable sources) why isn't it picked up by a film company who could keep the identities of the subjects secret and the main production is done by a filmmaker who is willing to be 'public'.

OP posts:

DaSilvaP · 22/02/2023 01:57

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 01:26

Is your husband a bit thick? It’s clear why the people involved in the documentary haven’t released their personal information. I find it astounding that he was convinced of the content but then rejected it all as ‘garbage’ half way through. Are you in the UK? That’s a v US phraseology. There are plenty of other documentary sources and indeed published books, such as Trans and Irreversible Harm your husband could look at. Sorry OP but there is a disingenuous quality about your post that makes me feel it hasn’t been written in good faith.

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Sorry OP but there is a disingenuous quality about your post that makes me feel it hasn’t been written in good faith.

My instant impression.

Pretending to not be aware of the very real danger of being harassed in worst possible ways by a lunatic sect sounds very sincere.

As for the anonymity of a source either proving or disproving any argument, we have seen the last few years plenty of plain lies and twisted facts being openly peddled by people who wouldn't get off the cameras.

Eyerollcentral · 22/02/2023 01:39

Datun · 22/02/2023 01:34

Op, no-one here is going to give you any confidential information about the people in the film.

Yes, quite clearly that’s what the badly written and laborious post is aimed at getting.

Datun · 22/02/2023 01:34

Op, no-one here is going to give you any confidential information about the people in the film.

CryptoFascistMadameCholet · 22/02/2023 01:32

Parents have to be anonymous to protect our gender-distressed children’s identities.

I’d love to be shouting from the rooftops and launching legal cases left, right and centre but anyone who has my name also
has my kid’s names and considering the trauma, sexual assaults, eating disorders, comorbid MH conditions and SENDs that are in the backstory of your average gender distressed adolescent, you can see why having all that in the public eye with their name attached might not be good for their future wellbeing!