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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What's the problem with FiLiA?

289 replies

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 06:26

On another thread a few posters referred to "the FiLiA debacle". Without wanting to poke at the wounds in the current feminist movement, can someone tell me what's gone on?

OP posts:
AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:11

I think what people are unhappy about was that one workshop took place at the last conference. All because some people disagree with the speakers on the panel. And the appointment of Claire because she speaks out about racism including the racism of popular women in feminism.
There are some women that are seen as forbidden to criticise. So the fact Claire criticises their racism makes her a target.
I also can't believe some women arguing against inclusivity. Which women do you think should not be included at FILIA conferences?

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 13:09

BadSkiingMum · 06/02/2023 12:35

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom

There are lots of rumours of this happening in small orgs and charities but it’s all under the radar and the orgs are so small it’s unlikely to reach the news.

Do you mind me asking what kind of thing? Staff/trustees/volunteers/projects/language?

There was an upheaval at a national organisation for voluntary organisations a couple of years back, which I took at face value. But I might revisit it and see what I think now.

If anything, I think charities are more likely to attract press attention than private sector organisations because there is the donation/fundraising angle and also because charities often involve the ‘great and the good’.

Have a look at the Mermaids thread in the link - it’s what’s happened over there (only they have the double threat of an internal EDI Vampire and an external safeguarding investigation happening at the same time. We’d all assumed it was the massive, egregious safeguarding fails that pushed Susie Green out of the CEO role but it now looks like it was actually the EDI Vampire that killed her transing kiddies career).

The thread starts with Mermaids (it’s a fascinating case study) but goes into some other examples too.

Obvs I don’t give a shiny shit if Mermaids are hoisted by their own intersectional petard (in fact, it seems like a fitting end for them) but it would be upsetting to witness similar taking hold at Filia.

Usually, when someone complains about Filia on here it’s only because we are lazily shortcutting and we are really referring to that specific WPUK session at Filia that was like a Red Guard Struggle Session with Kara Dansky forced to wear the pointy hat. Not something women were expecting to witness in Wales!

The whole sorry saga is thrashed out on the link someone else posted up thread.

The WPUK session also gave us gems such as (paraphrasing!) ‘Only right wing women have the money to support crowdfunders’.

Which as you can imagine, pissed off scores of disabled women, single mothers, women on stat mat pay, women in low waged professions such as caring & older women on state pensions who have helped one £5 or £10 donation at a time. The very women that WPUK claims to care about!

(Not that there is anything intrinsically wrong with being a conservative or right leaning centrist anyway so using ‘right wing’ as a pejorative pissed off those women too!)

Up until now though, here on MN we’d been categorising that particular debacle as a WPUK thing, not a Filia thing… but it looks like it may have spread?

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 13:06

@AllOutofEverything I would be extremely surprised if that was the case, knowing the people involved.

And it doesn't seem to be the only reason why there is unhappiness with FiLiA.

It's all very perplexing.

OP posts:
AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:04

And critical race theory simply means recognising that racism and institutional racism exists.
There is a lot of racism on this board so I am not surprised some do not agree with it. But I would expect any feminist organisation to recognise racism and institutional racism.

AllOutofEverything · 06/02/2023 13:02

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 09:28

@TheGreatATuin yes, I do tend to ignore but it's getting harder as women I admire are saying they've been blocked etc. And I'm a regular donor to FiLiA so have to decide whether I continue.

I can't get to the Glasgow conference so maybe it will have resolved itself by the time the 2024 event comes around!

Honestly this is meaningless. Where they blocked for being abusive or rude to FILIA? That is the usual reason to block.

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 12:41

😔 between this and the Radical Notion's ticking off of those Doing Feminism Wrong, this state of affairs is disheartening.

I think I'll just remember the good times, and carry on writing to my MP, and donating to crowdfunders and other organisations like KPSS and Sex Matters.

BadSkiingMum · 06/02/2023 12:35

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom

There are lots of rumours of this happening in small orgs and charities but it’s all under the radar and the orgs are so small it’s unlikely to reach the news.

Do you mind me asking what kind of thing? Staff/trustees/volunteers/projects/language?

There was an upheaval at a national organisation for voluntary organisations a couple of years back, which I took at face value. But I might revisit it and see what I think now.

If anything, I think charities are more likely to attract press attention than private sector organisations because there is the donation/fundraising angle and also because charities often involve the ‘great and the good’.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 12:33

Generally I'm not a fan of critical race theory and it's applicability to the foundations and expression of racism in the UK.

Me neither. We can’t fix the UK’s race issues using a manual written for the USA.

and to be fair, following that particular manual doesn’t seem to work very well for the US!

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 12:30

I agree re: Belstaffie.

If a feminist org no longer considers Belstaffie to be worthy of their association, then the whole thing is braindead already.

The EDI Vampire will feast while the artificial life support is still plugged in but will fuck off when the funding streams dry up and the leccy gets switched off.

Might not even make it to 18 months.

RhymesWithOrange · 06/02/2023 12:21

Yeah, Claire's missive on her appointment to FiLiA has the EDI vampire vibes. I'm white but due to my specific background (which for privacy I won't go into here) I dont recognise assumptions being made about me and my experience/politics/perspectives in the way Claire seems to. (I'm sure I'll be told that my feelings of resentment are nothing compared to those of black women's experiences and I'm sure they're not). Generally I'm not a fan of critical race theory and it's applicability to the foundations and expression of racism in the UK.

But yeah, blocking Belstaffie, who is phenomenal, makes me ask questions. And the hiding replies is a questionable tactic.

OP posts:
NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 12:19

BadSkiingMum · 06/02/2023 12:02

I’m interested in what you’re saying here: what’s the tipping point where ‘being fully inclusive’ and the huge complexity around it creates emotional upheaval that takes focus from a charity’s core purpose? Having lived through one such episode I am much less sure about it all these days.

I don’t know yet, but I am extremely interested in locating it!

There are lots of rumours of this happening in small orgs and charities but it’s all under the radar and the orgs are so small it’s unlikely to reach the news.

It’s going to be easier to prevent in single issue orgs but hard with something like Filia where the aim is to platform a wide spectrum of female experience. A genuine desire for fairness and social justice can very easily become bogged down in an intersectional power struggle.

I wasn’t there (too young) but I have a sinking feeling that something similar might’ve happened within second wave feminism? The terms used to describe it are very new (and kind of annoying, I accept!) but perhaps the behaviours are not so new, and are an inevitable part of human existence.

I’m still in the figuring things out phase!

Yarnosaura · 06/02/2023 12:15

Circumferences · 06/02/2023 11:10

KJK had a rant on her channel the other day, and part of it I recall, she was pissed off that Filia recently platformed an AGP male. So that's why she's peeved, but there might be other things going on that you've picked up on OP.

That was nearly 5 years ago! Not recent at all, and was when FiLiA was still broad church and fence-sitting on 'trans' stuff.

BadSkiingMum · 06/02/2023 12:02

I’m interested in what you’re saying here: what’s the tipping point where ‘being fully inclusive’ and the huge complexity around it creates emotional upheaval that takes focus from a charity’s core purpose? Having lived through one such episode I am much less sure about it all these days.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 11:57

Link to Mermaids thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4732781-mermaids-getting-eaten-from-the-inside-out

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 11:55

DerekFaker · 06/02/2023 10:55

Yes I saw this go down. Many people have an issue with this appointment as Claire H is really unpleasant and divisive.

You can still view the hidden replies by clicking on the little box symbol on the lower right hand side.

Just read the twitter thread.

I only have a passing acquaintance with the women involved, mostly restricted to online.

But I’ve been watching intersectional EDI policies destroy multiple companies, charities & community groups for a while now (summary in the most recent Mermaids thread) and I will be very surprised if Filia is still going in 18 months time.

They’ve invited the EDI Vampire* in for tea.

*not referring to a particular person, only a set of ideas that suck up all the oxygen and make it impossible for orgs to fulfil their original remit.

Circumferences · 06/02/2023 11:10

KJK had a rant on her channel the other day, and part of it I recall, she was pissed off that Filia recently platformed an AGP male. So that's why she's peeved, but there might be other things going on that you've picked up on OP.

HotPotInASpot · 06/02/2023 11:05

Isn’t it the JCJ Twitter thread that has caused the latest anger?

TheWitchesAreBackInTown · 06/02/2023 11:03

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 06/02/2023 10:56

Hiding critical (but, as far as I can see, not abusive) replies is rarely a good look.

Hiding replies is very concerning. It shows they can't take criticism and they are being dishonest.

bellinisurge · 06/02/2023 10:58

Belstaffie should be welcomed like the goddess she is. It's very odd that Filia blocked her. I get there can be personality clashes but Belstaffie is such a totemic figure, it looks very odd.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 06/02/2023 10:56

Hiding critical (but, as far as I can see, not abusive) replies is rarely a good look.

DerekFaker · 06/02/2023 10:55

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 10:44

Something went on. Including hiding replies, which is another thing I don't understand! Just makes people more curious

twitter.com/filia_charity/status/1619002802260385793?s=46&t=jOlvgrtOq-zjx2s0duYVQg

Yes I saw this go down. Many people have an issue with this appointment as Claire H is really unpleasant and divisive.

You can still view the hidden replies by clicking on the little box symbol on the lower right hand side.

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 10:44

Something went on. Including hiding replies, which is another thing I don't understand! Just makes people more curious

twitter.com/filia_charity/status/1619002802260385793?s=46&t=jOlvgrtOq-zjx2s0duYVQg

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 06/02/2023 10:18

Ah - thought you meant a thread here. Fair enough. Yes, asking on Twitter is more daunting.

ResisterRex · 06/02/2023 10:18

What is the purpose of blocking on Twitter? I only use it for searching so I really don't understand why it is done. I guess there's more than one reason.

Belstaffie wasn't - I'm sure - who I saw that was blocked. That's actually a bit concerning.

BlessedKali · 06/02/2023 10:04

Filia does absolutely excellent work, undoubtedly. I think blocking people on twitter is really a minor problem in comparison with the work they do, and could just be due to one person's flaws (we are all flawed in one way or another, which is why looking for purity and perfection is a waste of time). Id say keep donating.. the hague work they do is so important for mothers x

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