Radio 4 AntiSocial - Brits gender neutral awards and non-binary

It was much more understandable when being NB was just a declaration that you didn't want to conform to traditional gender norms, and had zero to do with your actual sex. Just the current take on being androgynous. When the did the new childlike understanding - that changing the way you dress, cut your hair or walk actually means you are a different sex or neither - stop being laughable?

Just talking about the Brits now on Women’s Hour (Monday 23rd Jan, 10.28 am).

I’m still unsure why Sam Smith thinks being NB doesn’t make them eligible for Best Male, unless they think that they have morphed into some weird third sex?

I think this person lacks any insight into his own behaviour.

I'm sure you've all seen this, saving here for prosperity.,

This as well as the aforementioned word salad-ery is enough to tell me to avoid this podcast unless I want to raise my blood pressure deliberately.

SS's ideology is perpetuating the idea that men have to look bill board wash board poster boy 'masculine.'

Charlie is also perpetuating the idea that to be a woman and to woman you have to do things in a certain way.

Idiots.

The only part I would have liked Nicky to say was in response to SS's theorising - that's really bloody sexist sam.

I cannot believe Charlie thinks that that time is all it needs for sex parity in the music industry. The impact of children or menopause or just straight misogyny is completely lost on them

Look, Sam puts on weight in a WOMANLY way - don't you get it?

Nikki was amazing - I would put money on her being here.

What's so interesting about this topic is the way that everyone (except the woke) are treading on eggshells during the discussion, so here we had Charlie feeling free to say whatever she wanted while the other two were hopping about trying not to offend her. I can't think of any other topic where that happens.

Nicky was a star!

Backtracking a bit, but no worries Ramblingnamechanger - very glad to hear we, and nauticant, heard it and had the same wtf reaction. Along with about 90% of Radio 4 listeners across the country, I imagine.

I thought Nicky was excellent - explaining why women are disadvantaged because of their sex (not gender) and being respectful to Charlie about being NB despite finding gender a nebulous concept.

Sparkly jumpsuit and weight gain sounds like Elvis. The King missed a trick there.

Almost like this is all rooted in a combination of self-hate and misogyny.

This was an excellent moment - use clear language

@pattihews ah I missed the bit about Charlie feeling that she was at even more at a disadvantage because there was no genre purely for NB people. Such little joined up thinking and I’d have liked Nikki to have pointed out how the loss of the female category has been so damaging to women!

Charlie even spoke about how disadvantaged women were because the vast majority in the music industry are men ie they nominate and promote and produce for each other. I get why Charlie might want to identify how of their sex, but rest assured every man in the music industry will still see them as female. We cannot identify out of our oppression however much we’d like to.

I have friends whose NB adult child (with a penis) married a NB adult (with a cervix

So just another boring old straight couple then.

The non binaries whining pretending they can't get married is because it means they have to acknowledge that, yes, they do have a sex and that they are just making shit up to pretend they are oppressed and a victim.

Sam smith is a man whether he wears a sparkly jumpsuit or puts on weight. A man who has fucked over female artists because of his need to feel special and pretend he is something other than the rest of us boring men and women.

Yes, the assertion that she was already at a disadvantage being female for the first 25 years of her life before becoming NB and now she was at even more at a disadvantage because there was no genre purely for NB people, but she was glad women didn't have a separate category (I was driving and I might have missed something) left me feeling really upset and has stayed with me all after afternoon. It was a real FU moment. I feel devastated that so many young women are rejecting their sex — not that they can reject it, obvs.

I did feel for Nicky, having to work out which bits to respond to.

I thought this was a really good programme. 3 female voices ( sorry Charlie!) calmly discussing the topic from different view points and on the whole being given the time to explain themselves. I thought the clear and extensive explanation of what non-binary is was fantastic! Obviously there may be people who listened and thought it all made perfect sense but I think this will really wake people up to what self indulgent nonsense it is! There's nothing better than someone who truly believes in gender ideology explaining it to highlight how arbitrary and superficial it all is! The fact that Charlie sounds intelligent and motivated made it sound all the more strange because it still makes no sense. I have the feeling they will look back on this with embarrassment when they get a little older and wiser!

Anyway, I'm pleased to have learned that my fat accumulation suggest I'm a veritable goddess!

I listened to that one nauticant, and other episodes. I'm not saying he's a perfect alternative but VD was a worse option.

I wouldn't count on Adam Fleming being more willing to challenge unusual claims:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4605119-drag-queens-and-libraries-radio-4-discussion

Just listened on BBC Sounds. What a lot of pussyfooting around, with everyone scared to say anything too inflammatory. You don't get that with any other topics. And both Nicky and Victoria managed to use the wrong pronouns for Sam Smith anyway 😂
Those comments SS made about getting fat where women do will hopefully have had a lot Radio 4 listeners agog.

And Charlie may identify as NB but all that apologising was pure female socialisation.

Lots of missed opportunities though.

I think the regular host might have done a better job here. Victoria didn't challenge anything that was said, and he's (literally) more ballsy.

I didn't hear the whole thing, but was getting irritated by Nikki's missed opportunity to mention that women are about 50% of the population that's now disadvantaged by the awards in order to include the .05% who are trans/NB.

Also that the awards have always been allocated by sex, not gender, so they were perfectly inclusive already- as everyone has a sex whether they have a gender identity or not.

I mean, who unilaterally redefined the categories?