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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

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Redbird87 · 19/05/2023 01:36

I'm so furious at your husband, what a knob. He's grown spikes instead of hardening up as a person, so his pain has to be everyone else's problem. He's punishing you bc you're the mother, which makes you "the parent." If god forbid DD had gotten into drugs, joined a gang, even killed someone, he'd be on this same shit, it would be your fault in his tiny moid brain.

I've been thinking lately about studies done on people in extreme isolation, it changes the way your brain works. You lose the ability to understand perception, which scientists are starting to think we need others to comprehend, or we begin to depersonalize. And isn't that what happens when you're terminally online, in an echo chamber just reiterating the same unchallenged thing? No wonder so many people did this over quarantine.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2023 23:10

Moomoola · 18/05/2023 20:46

Gosh you lot are fabulous. I’d be in pieces without you.

Moomoola, this might be hard for you to hear as much as its as hard for your husband to hear, but I think it needs to be said now.

As things stand, you can only do so much. You can only wait to the point where you pick up the pieces. And I pretty much guarentee this will happen at some point purely because your daughter is 17 and its so very rare for what you are doing at 17 to be where you are at age 21 or 25 or 30...

You change so much in those years.

The single most important thing you need to do, is make sure she knows you are there. There for if/when things go tits up with her current set up.

Her life must be suffocating if she is being controlled to the extent we all think. And at some point you need to have faith that she WILL figure that out. SOMEONE will ask the key question or SOMETHING will happen when she will go 'why am I with this person'. And it WILL slowly unravel.

Precisely because we can all see this is a fundamentally unhealthy relationship, and unhealthy relationship are the ones that fall apart in the most dramatic of fashions.

And she will, most likely, have no where else to go.

This isn't the scenario you want, but its also a reality.

Your daughter could be doing all manner of other things you dislike and you wouldn't be able to stop her - drugs, hanging out with the wrong crowd, into crime, dreadful boyfriend etc etc. You'd not be able to talk her out of those things either. This is the age you kick back against your parents because you are programmed to - you are programmed to seek independence at this age.

In her case, she's saying this, but doing different. She's not looking for independence - shes looked for dependence elsewhere cos shes not ready for that independence yet but thinks she is. So the chances are she will get to the point of still seeking that independence just in few years time. And with kick back against where she is now.

Encouraging every single scrap of independence NOW will help with that process. The more she feels she is and can do things WITHOUT you, but equally without her other half and her mother the better. But also framing it as, if you ever need anything we are your safety net.

And thats all you need to do, and all you can do. As much as thats frustrating. Because you CANT control the situation. Your husband wants to control the situation but he can't. So hes trying to control you. You need to tell yourself this over and over again.

This is about what you CAN do, even if its only so very limited.

Genuinely, you need to be good to yourself and don't heap pressure on yourself to do the impossible. You can't change who she is and you can't stop her making bad decisions.

Her bad decisions are hers to make and hers to take ownership of at her age, whether you like it or not. Thats her right. As a parent, its your job to stand and watch her do it no matter how bad it is. Because you can't do anymore than that. She has to learn, and sometimes you can only learn the hard way in life. And age 17 is probably the very peak of that because you are so full of optimism and positivity. The cynicism of your ideals hasn't started to creep in yet. Disillusionment of politics and idealology comes to nearly all of us without fail though. And thats true even of cults.

You just have to feed the skills to be independent and fuel the fire of critical thinking. And that can be nothing whatsoever to do with trans. Or being critical of her partner. Frame it as being about HER as an individual. Independant. Who doesn't need anyone else (until she does).

There will be a big car crash, and thats what you have to hope for. And it will be painful. But isn't that everyone's first big love. And thats what this is - the all consuming nature of that which the school are too fucking stupid to see through that lens.

You need to gently suggest some of this to your husband, that yep she is allowed to fuck up her life. And yep its your job to be there when it happens. Its not your job to stop it from happening. Cos thats not how life works. Not when you are 17/18. Its a right of passage.

What were you doing age 17? What was he doing? What stupid shit did you do? Would you have listened to your parents without rebelling / questioning / getting upset?

Moomoola · 18/05/2023 20:46

Gosh you lot are fabulous. I’d be in pieces without you.

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Moomoola · 18/05/2023 20:42

Oh scrolling that was nice of you, and a very accurate metaphor I suspect.
live still to listen to it, got a bit researched out, but have read up on de-culting and yes, EVERYONE a we’ve spoken to including you lovely mns says the same. I so want to send links but obviously she won’t look at them. Or write to her, but X will dissect. It’s freaking nuts.

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Moomoola · 18/05/2023 20:35

Thanks guys. I’ve really had enough today.
DH nagged me to give up job to work on getting daughter back.
he does research a lot, but obviously this is putting massive strain on top of his demanding job.
Thanks red that sounds about right. It’s just sooo relentless. I’ve left him scaring his poor old mum on the phone. It’s like he has to make everyone around him as anxious as he is. Exhausting.
. Thankszebra your hubby sounds nice. DH works hard and I guess he just wants me to sort stuff, not swan off. But I can’t cope with his anxiety and relentless ness. He arranged a chat with someone and has passed it to me to deal with. Thanks mate.
I know of other mums who have done lots of research and managed to question their daughters..but ours is in the lions den. Shes not around to gently question. She’s been slowly isolated from us.
I’d love to go round there, of course I would, but as you say, I’ll be fuelling the fire. I’ve found out she has a job, I could pop in there and ask her directly if she’ll see me after her shift.
If she does, I could say how much I love her and how there seems to be massive misunderstandings and could we chat. She will probably tell me what I want to hear, then retreat for her own mental health, as she does any time I dare say anything about what she’s up to.
To her it’s all great! She’ll say she’s got into college! She has a job! She’s in love! Which does sound like I’m worrying unnecessarily. It’s just that she legged it. She was talking suicide, top surgery and now testosterone. I guess I keep it light and jolly and ignore the T word and talk college.

zebracat* your DH sounds nice!
thanks merlinsbeard I guess time and space and hoping something will crack. There must be more I can do.

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ScrollingLeaves · 18/05/2023 20:10

Moomola in that radio programme about the Lighthouse cult, the people affected, who know all about the cult, emphasised said that it was crucial not to explode and get angry or confrontational, because that’s what the cult wants. It wants the child (DD) to say, OK that’s enough I’m never going to see you again. That’s why I said your DH should listen.

I think I was deleted before because I used the metaphor of a horror film for what is happening to so many girls affected by transgender ideology, and described horror film victim scenarios and malevolent characters within the analogy. Went a bit far I suppose.

Merlinsbeard83 · 18/05/2023 18:56

This sounds so stressful for you all. But I don't understand why you not working will help convince your child to come home .
It sounds like giving them time and space is all you can do now.
I can't imagine how hard this must be for you .
I hope they do return home or atleast start building a good relationship soon

Zebracat · 18/05/2023 18:35

And I know you show him our responses, show him these!

Zebracat · 18/05/2023 18:34

Everything @RedToothBrush said. How bloody dare he. You do not need to feel guilty for having a hobby. My husband would have been really pleased that I’d been able to take my mind off it for 2 hours. He’s an arse.

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2023 18:20

Moomoola · 18/05/2023 18:05

I. Cannot.Take.DH at the mo. Calls me stressed in the day, also comes in stressed. and I stupidly admitted doing a hobby for two hours this afternoon, - the teacher has some ideas to help - but also for my own sanity. Of course he is working hard and frustrated at lack of perceived movement. DD not contacting us. I read up on cults but obv that’s not enough.
he said,’what have you done? This slowly slowly approach isn’t working.Why haven’t you gone round her friends house/called posy Parker/ called the school? We need to take direct action etc etc. you gave up work to get our daughter back.’
Me - ‘actually I’d like to go back to work. ‘
Him,’well you can say goodbye to our daughter if you go back to work, you’ll have even less time to spend on getting her back’.
he’s now vanished. I know he’s tired, but ..I dunno. Am a bit fed up. It’s soo relentless.

Has HE read up on cults?

And how you CANNOT MAKE someone leave a cult. It takes YEARS for someone in a cult to WORK IT OUT THEMSELVES and leave.

So no matter how much you are doing, there is still a limit to how effective it can ever be.

And YES you could be losing your daughter for years. But this ISN'T YOUR fault and he is out of order for suggesting that and that you are failing to prevent her from doing x, y and z.

This is BEYOND your control. All he is doing with this approach is destroying his relationship with you.

The fact is HE doesn't want to hear this and HE wants someone to blame. And instead of focusing that on the relevant parties he's blaming it on the one person who absolutely doesn't want his daughter to do this. It's about HIM feeling powerless. And so he has to assert power over you. Again not ok.

Remind him of this. But more importantly, remind yourself of this.

Moomoola · 18/05/2023 18:05

I. Cannot.Take.DH at the mo. Calls me stressed in the day, also comes in stressed. and I stupidly admitted doing a hobby for two hours this afternoon, - the teacher has some ideas to help - but also for my own sanity. Of course he is working hard and frustrated at lack of perceived movement. DD not contacting us. I read up on cults but obv that’s not enough.
he said,’what have you done? This slowly slowly approach isn’t working.Why haven’t you gone round her friends house/called posy Parker/ called the school? We need to take direct action etc etc. you gave up work to get our daughter back.’
Me - ‘actually I’d like to go back to work. ‘
Him,’well you can say goodbye to our daughter if you go back to work, you’ll have even less time to spend on getting her back’.
he’s now vanished. I know he’s tired, but ..I dunno. Am a bit fed up. It’s soo relentless.

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Moomoola · 18/05/2023 11:35

Maybe not that useful.
im sure you’ve all seen this x

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Moomoola · 18/05/2023 08:58

Thank you,I’ll look it up now.
i don’t know if this is helpful to anyone, but the second video, mind control made easy, certainly explains what’s happening with the whole trans thing.
https://www.cultinformation.org.uk/video.html

Cult Information Centre: Videos

https://www.cultinformation.org.uk/video.html

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Righthandcider · 18/05/2023 08:54

@Moomoola I've been watching this thread and thinking of you, as have many others I'm sure. Not sure if you've already seen this or if it's totally unhelpful but I saw this on twitter and wondered if you had too.

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Moomoola · 18/05/2023 08:36

Thank you all SO much.
Your kind support of the mental load is so helpful. Just for it to be acknowledged creates strength. Amazing! As you all know this is so isolating in RL- people you would normally turn to for help tell you black is white. Even, I’m now finding, some mates . So thank you so much. If I can help anyone back, I’d be delighted.

More early morning bombardment off DH. I haven’t found the balance of dealing with His frustration. It’s constant. To not let it affect me, I sort of close down, but a bit too much, then I can’t think/ act clearly and doubt myself, which of course irritates him, that I’m not all posy Parker. I would be , if I thought it wouldnt as you say, hag and wed, add fuel. Sexmatters (or genspect ) says that because they are confused, they need to be angry, otherwise the doubts need to be acknowledged- which seems true of the trans movement as a whole.
So yes, scrolling and redtoothbrush it is definitely a very clever cult, designed to destru families, and DD is slap bang in the middle - affirmed at school, went to CAHMS, lives with testosterone taking family.
I WILL let rip with the counsellor, and I’m going to say, In the delightful words of mum ‘get your head out of your arse.’
I think hag that yes X will have primed DD, and will know exactly how to play the therapists.
scrolling ( what on earth did you write that merited deleting?!) thank you for that. I’ve read about lighthouse and will listen to radio later.

im googling why the trans movement as a whole wants to destabilise families and not getting anywhere. I imagine it’s just generic power? And if the person is isolated they are easier to control - as in domestic abuse. But why? My stonewalled mate wanted to know and I couldn’t coherently say.
hag and wdnesday thanks for this.. ‘Just let them huff and puff on their own. Their drama, not yours.’
you are right. I found myself texting DD and justifying why I’m not transphobic…but there is no point. So I texted that ‘you are trans, it never has and never will be a problem. I love you’. I hope that defuses anything. And now, I’m letting go of the old rope, and focussing on me! Let’s get that housework done! 😂 and, to everyone, 💐🍰❤️

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HagoftheNorth · 18/05/2023 06:26

Plus, as you’ve said, she’ll say different things on different days

sending hugs

HagoftheNorth · 18/05/2023 06:25

Good morning Moomoola

Strangely, I wouldn’t worry too much about what the therapist said - I wonder whether you got the report of what she actually said, followed by a report of what dd (having spoken to x) authorised them to say?

Jellycats4life · 17/05/2023 11:50

Yes @wednesdaynamesep 👏

It’s about time @Moomoola let rip about the mental load she is shouldering. Really let them have it.

ScrollingLeaves · 17/05/2023 11:46

Moomola I am listening right now 11.45 a.m to Radio 4 about someone whose daughter was captured by a cult. I thought you would be interested to hear it. I think your DH should listen too.

If you remember RedToothBrush said this is like a cult.

“Groups like Lighthouse encourage conflict within in families” I just heard this.

wednesdaynamesep · 17/05/2023 08:24

Correction: X and DD (not DH)

wednesdaynamesep · 17/05/2023 08:23

I was reading back @Moomoola, to your DH saying you needed to be more passionate in therapy sessions. I'd take that on and unexpectedly offload:

  • worries about your DS
  • worries about your DH health
  • worries about DD
  • feeling trapped between all of them
  • feeling a weight of responsibility for success / failure from DHs expectations of what you should be doing etc
  • feeling like you're going to snap
  • upset by the unfair allegations DD is making
  • feeling invisible in all of this except when you're someone else's punching bag
  • etc

In other words, make it a session where you centre you and the others have to listen and take it on board.

They're all taking you for granted - feminist issue. And they shouldn't.

Personally, I'd also plan a trip somewhere...on your own. A nice hotel for a weekend where you do nothing but read, chill, walks, eat and sleep. I'd 'drop the rope on them all', to be honest, just for a bit. They need to pick it up. You aren't the family donkey. Or go visit someone who gives you joy.

I also think @HagoftheNorth is correct in you seeing kick-back from X and DH. By dropping the rope you're starving their relationship of the fuel it needs to keep burning. So they've got out the bellows and are doing what they need to to get it burning again. Just let them huff and puff on their own. Their drama, not yours.

Big hug. I can hear how exhausted you are in your posts.

Moomoola · 17/05/2023 07:44

zebra at I think they get it wrong - but I also think as mum says- she's an expert at telling people what they want to hear.
Redbird that's very kind, and just what I need to hear! I also think the same about you all. I am full of quiet admiration for everyone struggling through these unchartered backwaters. How dare men be misogynistic to us? We should be revered as godlike given that we create life ffs!
Your pictures made me laugh and cheered me up a lot! Thank you. I especially like the man on the chair and the faces😍! Genius!

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Redbird87 · 16/05/2023 21:55

@Moomoola Big hugs to you. I know you probably feel helpless right now, but I'm sure most of us are kinda astonished by your strength. Keep holding on, keep researching, and keep taking time for yourself and your other loved ones when it gets too much.Thread tax <3

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 16/05/2023 17:40

What's the therapist and what's DD? DD may well be saying different things to different people on different days! She's switching between you and DH as the enemy, is that just divide and rule? I wouldn't take what she says too seriously.

due to my utter incompetence and forgetting to update address, it's worth 60 quid

Well every cloud has a silver lining!