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Original poster

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
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Original poster
Moomoola · 25/05/2023 09:50

Thanks so much mum. Its ridiculous isnt it.
An uncontreversial card it is then, good point.
And a token for a cake. Maybe. I dont think she deserves a big present, and it would be used against us somehow, or sold.
Reading detrans on reddit. its SO heartbreaking. Those poor kids.

OP posts:
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 25/05/2023 09:20

Given how things are with your DD, I wouldn't get anything at all political or message-y as a gift or card. And it's tricky to include anything that harks back to DD's childhood and herself as a girl. She might not want to see herself at all -I wouldn't have done at that age. Then again if you use pictures that don't include her she could see that as erasing her from the family. So if you use photos maybe also include a photo of her as she is now, if you have one? Though I'd probably just choose a fancy gender neutral card, loving or arty or joky.

Is there something practical and gender neutral or even a bit boyish that you can get for DD as a present? Something to do with a hobby or college or work, maybe a smartwatch (probably too expensive if you're not wanting to get a big present), the modern equivalent of the Posh Fountain Pen that kids used to get?

It’s ridiculous when even a celebration involves eggshells and asking for advice.

It is walking on eggshells when we are trying to avoid estrangement. 💐

Original poster
Moomoola · 25/05/2023 08:48

Thank you so much! I actually can’t face buying a trans necklace. Sickened by the monetising of this. As an aside, I Stumbkedacross ‘Grampian pride’ that arrange (one a month) pride marches. The Logo is ‘just be yourself’ and surprisingly you can buy lots of lovely merch. Someone somewhere is making a LOT of money
dunble great idea! And surely can’t be misconstrued.
movingroovinbarbei 😂😂😂😂
Isn’t it ridiculous, but I think as redbird87 says, even bread, your lovely idea of a charm bracelet will probably be used against me.
DH just wants to send a text, but I think I’ll get a moonpig card with photos of her absolutely loathsome childhood and a loving message. I think acknowledging , like faffertea you suggest, that things are difficult at the moment sounds sensible too.
thank you. It’s ridiculous when even a celebration involves eggeshells and asking for advice. I’m just so nervous that she is swallowing the go no contact crap. There’s so many heartbreaking tales on the PITT su stack.It’s been done so slowly and carefully and she will probably think she’s thought of it herself.
thank you

OP posts:
Redbird87 · 25/05/2023 07:26

I'd be careful about jewelry, you don't want it to be misconstrued as "forcing her to be feminine" or whatever. If the gf is already twisting your words, this would definitely give her ammunition, and be lorded over your head as proof of being passive-aggressive and manipulative. And yes, we all know that men can wear whatever jewelry they want, and it's ok when nb dudes do it, but when there's already a frantic scrape for evidence of your wrongdoing, I'd doubt it would be taken as a good faith token. That's how they turn things, you see it in arguments a lot too-- "Ok, you said this completely reasonable thing, TOO BAD IT WAS IN BAD FAITH"

Faffertea · 25/05/2023 07:22

Bread’s idea is great for a gift.

I don’t know if it’s the right thing to do or not but I would text her on her birthday and say something along the lines of:
”Happy birthday dd. I/we hope you have a wonderful day. I/we would have loved to celebrate with you but appreciate things are difficult between us at the moment.” I’d then put in something about you will be remembering the first time you held her or other significant memory from the day she was born and that you will always love her. I’d then say you have sent her a gift, you hope she likes it and hope to be able to see her soon.

As you said Moo trans ideology has a real contempt for mothers (maybe because we are the ones to protect our children and see through this?) so I would be gently reminding her in the text that you were there from the very beginning of her life and always will be.

HagoftheNorth · 25/05/2023 06:28

Bread that’s a lovely idea, includes her childhood, and recognises her future is her choice ❤️

BreadInCaptivity · 25/05/2023 00:03

Jellycats4life · 24/05/2023 23:54

Personally I wouldn’t be able to buy a trans necklace. I just couldn’t. A necklace, sure, but not a “trans” one.

Agree.

Nothing that buys into the ideology.

A lovely necklace yes.

Or better still a charm bracelet sent with charms that reflect your love for her and the expectation she can add others to personalise it to reflect her identity.

Jellycats4life · 24/05/2023 23:54

Personally I wouldn’t be able to buy a trans necklace. I just couldn’t. A necklace, sure, but not a “trans” one.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 24/05/2023 23:47

Let them live together as men. It'll all fall apart when somebody has to do the housework.

dunBle · 24/05/2023 23:39

Don't send her a trans necklace, as it's the sort of gesture that can easily be twisted by those wanting to make you look bad. Perhaps if there's a bakery near you/her that does gift cards, you could send her one in the post, with a message along the lines of "it wasn't really practical to post you a birthday cake, so you can treat yourself to one from here instead" ?

Original poster
Moomoola · 24/05/2023 23:04

Aww delphinium I’m sorry. It’s so hard to know as an adult, what will hurt your kids feelings.
i know if I was DD I’d secretly, like you, want some sort of acknowledgment. So I will post something.
i guess I’ll forward any cards that arrive here too.
scrholling it’s good isn’t it? Talented lady!

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 24/05/2023 19:17

Moo, when I was just a bit older than your DD, I had several years of fallout with my mother. I was awful. She was awful. But, we eventually completely repaired our relationship and all was excellent until her death when I was around 40.

What hurt me a great deal during that time is I hit my milestone birthday and my parents ignored it. My little sister snuck a present to me by stealth, having used her babysitting $ to pay for it.

Talking now with my sister (we are both middle aged) this episode really hurt her. She saw her family falling apart and was terrified. Do what you can to acknowledge her bday even if she says she doesn't want to see you or DH. Deep down, I really wanted my mother and father to get me a little recognition-even a small gift and a small cake with my sisters would have meant the world to me. I just didn't have the bravery that tell them I missed them.

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 24/05/2023 09:50

And it was wise then too bearing! they are told,’yay! I’m special! also think the whole trans thing has to keep young women angry -as a pp said, to stop them questioning the whole trans thing. Maybe, as Bayswater suggested, they could be angry and protest about the companies using them to make money.

redtoothbrush I agree with the others, what a great piece of advice and thank you for taking the time to spell it out so clearly.

So much to think about here! DH didn’t get counselling off NHS, I think because he survived intact so to speak. As you say, clog, he’s a bloke, and doesn’t think he needs it, but yes,his behaviour went more than a bit bonkers. which obviously affected DD.
you’ve summed it up here..
’m still dealing with the psychological after effects of just witnessing her illness and caring for her through it.
I don’t think society pays much attention to mental health after physical illness until it lands on their doorstep - it certainly took me by surprise, I suppose I vaguely thought I’d be so grateful to get through it all alive
Yup.

this is great advice - The idea that you need to foster her independence away from you guys as parents, so she will eventually feel independent enough to extricate herself from this fucked up codependent relationship, is a good one.
I’ll try! I hope so. Why does this movement hate mums and want to destroy families so much?
of course, now it’s her birthday week, she’s ignoring me.
i think the whole script is designed to create maximum pain for parents.
DH bugged her and Finally she texted,’ I don’t want to talk to you because it makes me feel bad. I’ll be away for a few days for my birthday’.
I guess I reply, ‘ok, have fun and a great birthday love mum’

im thinking of sending a small trans necklace? As a small sign of acceptance and so hopefully it will remind her I exist! Or is that conversion therapy or affirming? And I just send a text? Not in the mood to do much!

can I just say, how wonderful Bayswater is. I’d got confused/mental block but finally had such a useful chat. The ladies I chatted to said what great advice you are all giving - on various threads.
They agreed, that it’s best to be super calm, and ‘oh that’s nice dear’ no fuelling. I’ve told DH it might not seem to be working, but..we can do the placards later.
his emotions are fuelled by the thought of her taking testosterone. I’ve just discovered about microdosing and you can buy a weeks worth for £18 online from high st chemist with a made up doctors address.even if I type ‘I want to be a man’ into reasons. Wtaf? Writing them a blooming letter, we’ll see how that goes!

sorry for the ramble.

OP posts:
BearingFalseWitness · 22/05/2023 05:24

Haha just realized I said virtually the same thing about 20 pages ago.

BearingFalseWitness · 22/05/2023 05:11

I wonder if the trauma of bereavement and very serious illness triggers that same reaction of “I want to escape my life” or “I want a complete do-over” which many dysphoric teens describe more generally as just wanting to be somebody different? Helena in the USA and young women who have come out the other side of the “transition” experience describe that appeal of just thinking they will get to be somebody completely different and not this girl they despise because she is unpopular/lonely/ugly/bullied/rejected by peers/weird/lesbian/autistic etc etc etc etc.

Just for the bereaved and survivors of family illness it’s an acting out of how different and disconnected they feel, a new form of escapism.
And also anger. A lot of these young women screaming at older women at the “Trans are Sacred” demos are so angry and that implies a lot of loss somehow. Their depression and anxiety may be very much rooted in completely different issues that aren’t around being autistic/lesbian for example but about the loss, fear and anger they have yet to process from trauma.

Redbird87 · 20/05/2023 23:42

I saw this on ovarit and thought it might be interesting for some of the posters here, including op obviously. It's a case study of a man who detransitioned after 30 years, and he's very honest about how little self-awareness his dysphoria gave him. I know mtf and ftm are very different, but there's still a lot of similarities herehttps://library.unej.ac.id/repository/Transitioning_Back_to_Maleness.pdf

https://library.unej.ac.id/repository/Transitioning_Back_to_Maleness.pdf

Original poster
Moomoola · 20/05/2023 10:56

Thank you so much everyone. I have read this a few times and am digesting while I get on. You are all so strong.. Clog totally agree re NHS. They are astonishing. Many hugs to your amazing family.
And to you all, appreciate your wisdom and will reply later. Hugs.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 19/05/2023 19:49

TheClogLady
but if we were looking for the one change that could be made in your family that is most likely create a positive cascade effect for all of you it would be for him to tackle whatever the fuck is going on in his head and reintegrate properly with family life.

This really could be a truly inspired insight on TheClogLady’s part.

Jellycats4life · 19/05/2023 12:43

Right now he barks commands at you as if he’s already dead and trapped in the spirit world communicating via an Ouija board or some such, only you’re the lone ‘Medium’ in this family, so you have to be the one that enacts his ghostly biddings.

Chuckled at this mental image but it’s really not funny. The worst thing is knowing that he does this because he apparently views getting your daughter back as wifework that he’s too busy and important to get fully embroiled with.

He’s like a broken record, asking OP to quit her job so that her full time job can be Project Get DD Back. But as @RedToothBrush has so eloquently said, you can’t control this situation and you can’t stop her making bad decisions, even if every fibre of your body is screaming that you need to stop this somehow. She can and will fuck up her life if she wants to. The truth is that stark.

The idea that you need to foster her independence away from you guys as parents, so she will eventually feel independent enough to extricate herself from this fucked up codependent relationship, is a good one.

tattygrl · 19/05/2023 12:26

RedToothBrush · 18/05/2023 23:10

Moomoola, this might be hard for you to hear as much as its as hard for your husband to hear, but I think it needs to be said now.

As things stand, you can only do so much. You can only wait to the point where you pick up the pieces. And I pretty much guarentee this will happen at some point purely because your daughter is 17 and its so very rare for what you are doing at 17 to be where you are at age 21 or 25 or 30...

You change so much in those years.

The single most important thing you need to do, is make sure she knows you are there. There for if/when things go tits up with her current set up.

Her life must be suffocating if she is being controlled to the extent we all think. And at some point you need to have faith that she WILL figure that out. SOMEONE will ask the key question or SOMETHING will happen when she will go 'why am I with this person'. And it WILL slowly unravel.

Precisely because we can all see this is a fundamentally unhealthy relationship, and unhealthy relationship are the ones that fall apart in the most dramatic of fashions.

And she will, most likely, have no where else to go.

This isn't the scenario you want, but its also a reality.

Your daughter could be doing all manner of other things you dislike and you wouldn't be able to stop her - drugs, hanging out with the wrong crowd, into crime, dreadful boyfriend etc etc. You'd not be able to talk her out of those things either. This is the age you kick back against your parents because you are programmed to - you are programmed to seek independence at this age.

In her case, she's saying this, but doing different. She's not looking for independence - shes looked for dependence elsewhere cos shes not ready for that independence yet but thinks she is. So the chances are she will get to the point of still seeking that independence just in few years time. And with kick back against where she is now.

Encouraging every single scrap of independence NOW will help with that process. The more she feels she is and can do things WITHOUT you, but equally without her other half and her mother the better. But also framing it as, if you ever need anything we are your safety net.

And thats all you need to do, and all you can do. As much as thats frustrating. Because you CANT control the situation. Your husband wants to control the situation but he can't. So hes trying to control you. You need to tell yourself this over and over again.

This is about what you CAN do, even if its only so very limited.

Genuinely, you need to be good to yourself and don't heap pressure on yourself to do the impossible. You can't change who she is and you can't stop her making bad decisions.

Her bad decisions are hers to make and hers to take ownership of at her age, whether you like it or not. Thats her right. As a parent, its your job to stand and watch her do it no matter how bad it is. Because you can't do anymore than that. She has to learn, and sometimes you can only learn the hard way in life. And age 17 is probably the very peak of that because you are so full of optimism and positivity. The cynicism of your ideals hasn't started to creep in yet. Disillusionment of politics and idealology comes to nearly all of us without fail though. And thats true even of cults.

You just have to feed the skills to be independent and fuel the fire of critical thinking. And that can be nothing whatsoever to do with trans. Or being critical of her partner. Frame it as being about HER as an individual. Independant. Who doesn't need anyone else (until she does).

There will be a big car crash, and thats what you have to hope for. And it will be painful. But isn't that everyone's first big love. And thats what this is - the all consuming nature of that which the school are too fucking stupid to see through that lens.

You need to gently suggest some of this to your husband, that yep she is allowed to fuck up her life. And yep its your job to be there when it happens. Its not your job to stop it from happening. Cos thats not how life works. Not when you are 17/18. Its a right of passage.

What were you doing age 17? What was he doing? What stupid shit did you do? Would you have listened to your parents without rebelling / questioning / getting upset?

Show quote history

This is gold!

Also OP, I'm furious with your husband. We all understand how stressed he is and that his behaviour is more or less fuelled by anxiety and worry, but it's actually unacceptable how he's treating you. He's treating you like a punch bag. I'd be blowing up at him about now, saying how dare you treat me like this.

TheClogLady · 19/05/2023 11:26

So much wisdom in the most recent posts!

And thats what this is - the all consuming nature of that which the school are too fucking stupid to see through that lens.

This really struck me - ‘trans’ seems to make the well-meaning (teachers, social workers, counsellors, Guardian readers!) lose their minds. In what world is it OK for school to encourage and facilitate a 17 year old running away from home, let alone a 17 year old who has recently been bereaved of her grandma and almost lost her dad to serious illness?

Speaking of which, has your DH had a mental health support post-illness?

As you know, my teen stepdaughter’s ROGD experience seems to have been kicked off, at least in part, by her little stepsister’s cancer related illness (which was a year after DsD lost her paternal granny).
Sasha and Stella from Genspect/ A Wider Lens have observed that serious illness and bereavement are oft occurring factors in the back stories of our gender-y teens although obvs no one is really studying this stuff (because even if they wanted to they are unlikely to find an institution willing to take
it on - ie look what’s happened pretty much all the old school sexologist researchers!)

Anyway, putting your DD’s situation aside for a moment - has your DH had any psychological support after his very serious illness?

We’ve been (in hindsight! incredibly fortunate in that my youngest DD’s diagnosis was extremely dramatic and involved a stay in PICU - the NHS definitely has it’s flaws but crikey, when it’s at it’s best it really is world class - and a rare, dramatic, diagnosis via PICU at one of the UK’s specialist children’s hospitals is the NHS at it’s best.

We were offered one to one psychological support from day 1 in PICU, first for me and then for DD too. Surviving something so intense can have a lot of long term effects psychologically - without prompt and expert treatment my DD would’ve died, her body went beyond the point that our mammal brains are equipped to deal with. She’s been in remission for over 3 years but still needs psychosocial interventions because she just doesn’t fit in with her peers anymore, most of whom haven’t had anything worse than chicken pox or a broken arm.
Surviving has made her grow up really fast, but also prevented her from developing at the normal, natural pace.

I’m still dealing with the psychological after effects of just witnessing her illness and caring for her through it.
I don’t think society pays much attention to mental health after physical illness until it lands on their doorstep - it certainly took me by surprise, I suppose I vaguely thought I’d be so grateful to get through it all alive that gratefulness would overwhelm any other emotions? What actually waited around the corner was anxiety, isolation, a sort of survivors-guilt-by-proxy re: the mothers of children who died and a weird sense of being institutionalised after living in the hospital so long - which I imagine is similar to how ex prisoners feel when they deliberately reoffend in order to get back to what they know, because life outside the institution is dauntingly unpredictable?

I wonder if your husband has ever mentally processed any of the stuff that happened to him and how it might be affecting him going forward?

Pop psychology but pushing you (and his mum) into the ‘fixer’ and ‘caregiver’ roles while he workaholics himself out of the family picture seems potentially quite profound to me (as does your DD’s dramatic ‘Dad’s Dead to Me’ type behaviour, considering Dad was very almost literally dead to her not that long ago).

Perhaps it’s a bit pointless to try and make your DH see a counsellor/therapist on his own to talk about surviving serious illness and reintegrating back into normal family and work life (with DD as no more than a side topic) because men are often spectacularly stupid about their own mental health but if we were looking for the one change that could be made in your family that is most likely create a positive cascade effect for all of you it would be for him to tackle whatever the fuck is going on in his head and reintegrate properly with family life.

Right now he barks commands at you as if he’s already dead and trapped in the spirit world communicating via an Ouija board or some such, only you’re the lone ‘Medium’ in this family, so you have to be the one that enacts his ghostly biddings.

For now, I suspect you should at least tell him he needs to start booking in a prearranged time for his seances and stop haunting you awake in the mornings (because no good day ever starts off with that much angst so he’s setting you up
for shitty days - no wonder you need a hobby session to decompress and reset)!

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 19/05/2023 08:49

@RedToothBrush is very wise!

Popping in to see DD at work could be risky. For a 17 year old having Mum suddenly turn up at work would be maximum cringe! Plus DD could tell X and they could spin that as you hassling her. I'd go with warm congratulations about the job, by a card or by text, and maybe an offer to meet up. Keep it light so there's not much for X to pour poison over.

I guess I keep it light and jolly and ignore the T word.

Yes (sigh!) Maybe wait for DD to bring up college and avoid questioning her about the future at all. Just be in the moment together.

It's all so very hard to do!

Responding calmly under pressure takes a huge amount of energy and you are right to take the time to do your hobby. Your DH may process things differently, by externalising his worries onto you and his mother; but your mind is still processing and restructuring the situation, even while on the surface you're absorbed in your hobby. It's making you more effective.

DarkChocHolic · 19/05/2023 08:30

@RedToothBrush
Wow! That is true for every parent!
Very wise words. Thank you