Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

I certainly don't know it all when it comes to parenting, please don't think I'm saying that, I'm just describing what I've seen, and to throw some thoughts in there. What you've said about nerve damage to the boob just makes me feel more adamant it's the wrong path for my dd, but it's how to express this, and my deep reservations, whilst making her feel ok as a person and that she can still talk about it. It is SO hard.

Sometimes you need to lose the battle to win the war. I have two friends who have both trodden this path. Neither teen has had top surgery or takes hormones and both are 17/18 now, so the danger period for puberty blockers is well over. Both use their children's preferred pronouns and new names and have a good dialogue going with their kids, who still live at home and are off doing interesting education stuff. you admit you have not used their preferred name for 18 months, your husband not only refuses to do so, he's going round policing what friends are doing, such as this lovely mum who has reached out to help you (by the way, I always use the preferred pronouns and names of my teen's friends, given that pretty much every single one is non-binary or trans so they say).

This is not some type of collusion, it's accepting that unless you are prepared to take a step forward, a small one, then you are pushing your dd into a corner. This is likely to backfire.

Others on here will disagree. A similar situation which is nothing to do with trans is one of my children is fixated on having a boob job. Now I think this type of cosmetic surgery is a form of mutilation, not worth the risks, crazy if you want to breastfeed, and an affront to feminism and the acceptance of natural bodies. However, I don't say that ever to her. I just say 'it's your body, it will be up to you' and then, once talking, I have explained why it wouldn't be for me and why I'm worried about what it represents in a more gentle way. Now, she's nearly 18 and may well go ahead anyway, and it is her body and she has the right to make that choice, despite me thinking all the things I think.

I just think entrenching things like names, constantly worrying you are letting down GC thinking if you give an inch and your husband thinking others should be confronting your dd is the wrong way to go about it.

I don't think hearing from detransitioners that they wished someone had stepped is relevant here, because when people take bad decisions they regret, they look round for people to blame and it's easy to say you should have stopped me. Ditto bad marriages, bad boyfriend choices and so on.

I agree with everyone that your son needs attention, and that counselling is a good idea. I'd also be telling my husband that if it comes to his huffing and puffing driving my child away for good, I'd be leaving him but it sounds like that's not for you. No-one stands between me and my child, and given that your dd has reached out a few times to you (not how you'd like but reached out nonetheless, through the teacher, agreeing to meet then cancelling), him huffing and puffing and trying to control everyone is making it all worse. I'd seize on those chinks of light and cut him out temporarily, I really would.

This is a good development. Bring DS - yes there are inconvenient aspects to the scheduling, but really that matters nothing right now. Don't get bogged down in the little details: family therapy right now for you, DH and DS is the key thing.

How do you think DS is feeling Moomoola? What does he say about this? Does he talk to his sister?

Are you in touch with any of the organisations for parents? Bayswater, genspect? There will be other families in your situation where a parent's fury and hostility, (generated by love and fear I know) are making life worse. Maybe being put in touch with other fathers who're having to navigate this might help?
And maybe you need to insist to your DH that DS must be given some attention and diversion. Go out for a meal (and no talk of the elephant in the room) get a takeaway and watch a film together, a shopping trip - anything you do that he likes. Restore a sense of normality for him and that normal life continues despite the stresses.

I agree with the prev posters, the more I think about it too.

Calling a spade a spade, your DD won't come home because she knows your H will be angry and dismissive of her. Taking all the gender stuff away, would you go back to live with your parents at 17 if you thought it's be combative and confrontational 24/7? Probably not, right?

It seems like a lot of the onus from your DH is on you to fix it, which imo isn't fair. You're a team, and he needs to play his part.. Which might be keeping quiet at the minute.

It sounds like he's struggling, and angry.. Has he reached out to your daughter much? If he can calm down and stay calm.. Maybe a text from her dad, just.. Being honest, telling her he doesn't understand what she's going through at the moment but he loves her, would go a way to de-escalating.

The attitude of your DH could jeopardise the situation for you all. He's creating a lot of stress at home and upsetting everyone - I wouldn't want to come back to this if I were your DD either.
Regardless of his opinion of their choices his opposition to it and use of language is really unhelpful.
I think you perhaps all need to limit how much time you spend talking about this, take the conversation out of the house so you're not constantly going over this in front of your DS.
She isn't a child he can tell what to do anymore.
Your DH needs to find someone other than you to vent to as well. He may need to let this out, but that isn't helping you right now.

@Moomoola the more you say about your DH, the more I think he is the biggest block to you getting your DD back home. As gentle and sensitive as you're being towards DD, she knows her dad, and his attitude towards all of this is very clear. If he stopped for a moment to apply some rational thinking, he'd see that going in all guns blazing as he suggests is a surefire way to never get her home again.
I completely understand his frustration but how can he think that he'll get his child home by stamping his feet and forcing her. You can be as nice as you like but your DD knows that her dad will not accept her gender identity if she comes home

I meant perhaps that is an abstract enough reason why she should consider desisting as long it didn’t come over as you using your DM to influence her.

If she was at all close to your darling mother and misses her, a good rule of thumb following a bereavement is not to take any life altering decisions for at least two years.

I've been thinking of you, @Moomoola I watch my friends deal with this and my heart breaks.

If you could only keep her from the surgery and the hormones...if she could only wait until she was 25 and her brain is leveled. If only she'd accept she is simply a lesbian or bi and love herself for who she is not what she never will become. I get it. It's a scary time for her and she has no idea.

Dh has even said, ‘take money take dd round the world, whatever it takes’ of course I’d love to, not at all sure she will even consider it.

I mean, I get it. I get why your DH is saying this. He's feeling panic and I would too if I were him. Both of you are in a terrible situation neither of you created and your DD and DS are the most precious humans in the world and you'd both do anything to save them.

There's a part of me that thinks a trip around the world would cure her of the brainwashing-especially if she visits places where young women's lives are much more precarious and their day to day can't be bothered with online navel gazing that is trans ideology. Not that you need to accompany her but some kind of exchange away from the toxic social world she's found herself in.

Easier said than done.

It's not about him ultimately.

You can force a 17/18 year old to do something they don't want.

Indeed I'd argue that her doing this in the first place is possibly a way of her asserting her own identity separate to her parents - not rebelling as that's the wrong word - but forging her own path.

Certainly I know that my mother was extremely overbearing in many ways to the point of suffocation. I think this played something of a roll in what happened. I went travelling to try and 'free' myself of it. I just wanted to get away from her. I was 25 at this point I would add. And I'd definitely had my own gender identity issues at university (this is way before it was a thing. I was expressing a wish I was a man explicitly and that I hated being a woman).

My parents were exceptionally liberal minded but my mother acted out control in other ways. I found it extremely difficult to find my own way around her.

I just wonder if that's part of the underlying dynamic. Wanting independence but security at the same time.

There's so much grief in all this for all of you - the loss of your Mum and now (in some ways) your daughter. Your DH is lashing out and blaming you in his fury and you all need some support and listening to. Is there anyone in your lives DH would talk to (and who would listen wisely)? Would it perhaps be uniting to talk together about your DS and how to keep his family secure around him?

I don't necessarily want to build bridges with her though.

I'm happy enough without her, after everything, if I'm honest. I have my own life with friends I love and a family of my own.

I think that is why I stress not devoting everything to your daughter and losing sight of the impact of that on your son.

Your choices available to you may mean you are unable to 'save' your daughter but you do have the ability to maintain your relationship with your son. Keep that in mind.

Adults have the right to screw up their own lives as much as family may disagree unfortunately. Be there to pick up the pieces though