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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Delphinium20 · 10/02/2023 02:58

DH is exhausted and talks about it on waking..and as soon as he comes in. Its disloyal, but I’m finding him exhausting.

I think this is a normal reaction for you - of course your DH is exhausting...he's feeling out of control. Gender ideology is doing this to your family. It's not your, your DH or your DD's faults. And that TikToker is a disgrace.

Moomoola · 09/02/2023 22:40

P.s that’s a lovely idea shirewife

OP posts:
Moomoola · 09/02/2023 22:39

Thanks camille I’ll watch it again and write the title here. Thanks delphinium that’s very kind of you x
mrs Overton and shirewife I’ll ask him I guess. I think we are obviously in need of sorting out as the family therapist was v keen we come back. DH not keen as he has loads of work on etc.
DS is very quiet and hides in computer land. Who wouldn’t when you can parachute from a building instead of talking to yer old mum. We do have nice, silly chats at bed time. But he backs off any personal questions, even the who does he hang out with at break sort of question. ( worryingly!)
the car is a good idea, and yes, it’s horrible how everyone is getting isolated with their own headphones and video screens.
apparantly the happiest people are communities that look out for each other. Duh.
I’ll ask for photos - she did actually offer!! and..stop press! I got a bit of gossip texted to me today!
yaaaay! So relieved. I really hope it’s not just cos she needs money.
DH is exhausted and talks about it on waking..and as soon as he comes in. Its disloyal, but I’m finding him exhausting.

I haven’t had the head space to book anything for DS at half term. May just have to shut my eyes and pay horrendous train fair somewhere.

saw another horrendous tik tok of utterly vile man with make up saying he coaches trans kids to leave home. he says,’if you’re unsure, or feel it’s not right, don’t worry! Give yourself time and move out in a few months’

Wtf why do that?

love and thanks to everyone.

OP posts:
ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 08/02/2023 11:15

@NitroNine - your post is probably the most moving and profound thing I have ever had the privilege to read on Mumsnet.
I have made a vow to myself to be present for girls and young women experiencing motherloss. I’m going to look into relevant charities and find out how I can help effectively, even if that’s just in fundraising.

My daughter is off to secondary in September and our first choice school actually has onsite regular group therapy session for bereaved pupils, which I can now see must make a welcome difference in combatting the utter loneliness that folds in with childhood grief.

Thank you for sharing with us.
There are no adequate words for me to type in response

💐💐💐

croupy · 08/02/2023 11:02

I’m pleased for you OP! Good luck.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 08/02/2023 10:54

Amazing! Such positive news! Just keep plugging away at the light, fun, contact. Don’t let anyone paint you as the villain.

If it were me I would perhaps invite DS to the sessions and make it clear it’s an invitation, that you are inviting him because he is important in family and thus shouldn’t be shut out of any family activity.
I would also make it clear that you have no expectation for him to accept that invitation and that you trust him to decide his own priority re: not missing school and re: whether this is something he is interested in participating in.
Also that if he does attend once, there is no obligation for him to go again.

I agree with others re: making a fuss of him and a cinema trip or similar shared activity likely being more valuable than attending family therapy.
It might be that as you go to more sessions you come up with some topics or questions you can ask DS about yourself and then bring up at the sessions.

My DH has always found long car journeys a good time to talk to a teen - you are close together, in a private space, but not looking directly at each other. No one can leave the ‘room’ until the destination is reached but it’s an absolutely fine environment for just sitting together without having to constantly converse.
Plus you can put some fave snacks in the glove compartment and let your teen choose the in car music, which gives you an in-road to asking about music/podcasts they like etc.

Once upon a time this stuff was obvious because teens played their music on turntable or CD players and everyone could hear. Nowadays they are often plugged into a device via headphones, separating them from full integration with family life.

Re: the name, you could offer a compromise with an initial (or a combo of old and new initials, if that gives a name-like result, eg AJ) or a gender neutral nickname based on old or new name. See if you can find a way to meet in the middle before going all the way to new name, but probe gently.

You could try a good cop/bad cop variation, something more along the lines of ‘understanding cop/bewildered cop’ where you ask gentle questions using the ruse ‘can you help to understand [thing] better so that I can explain it to dad? He’s so sad and confused and I don’t know what to say to him’

I don’t think you are quite at the right time to try that yet, but keep it in your back pocket!

Oh, and ask her to send photos from the concert!

ArabellaScott · 08/02/2023 10:30

Lovely to hear you are maintaining a relationshp and contact. This is hugely important, you're doing great. She knows you are there for her, OP. That really, really matters, even if she doesn't tell you so overtly.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/02/2023 09:46

Another one so pleased that you spent time with her.
Re the therapy, maybe just ask DS to try 1 session? Suggest he gives it a go with an open mind but promise that he won't be forced to go again if he doesn't want to? Point out that he will see things from a different perspective and that could help the therapist as well as you to hear what he thinks / sees?

Delphinium20 · 08/02/2023 02:48

I'm so happy you spent time with your daughter!

CamilleRose · 08/02/2023 01:52

The mother in the video “Rose” mentions a book on bonding which she highly recommends. I am sure you know how to bond with your daughter but it might still be useful because it sounds like it helps us understand HOW bond ng happens and they may be a lot of unconscious stuff.

I really don’t know if your son needs therapy right now, I think he needs his parents and as much normality as you can muster. Instead of therapy I would go out to see a film or go bowling or something.

Moomoola · 08/02/2023 00:47

Thank you camille completely incredible video on so many levels. Needs a lot of digesting!
I think somewhere in Abigail schrier she mentions how the current child led thinking is a misinterpretation. Will check it out tomorrow.
shocked to see smiley young girls with ‘kill terf’ type placards. What happened to being inclusive?

we have had a break through of sorts- I managed to call dd while she was on her own in the mums flat feeling bored and told her I’d pick her up..and we met! She backs away from anything other than light chat, as you guys said, But she actually got in the car. She was charming and excited to go to the concert. She is borrowing money off x. the texting got more frequent on the way home and she legged it as soon as I parked. I’m not allowed to see the flat ffs.
Dh thinks she was being summoned back.

Dh and I saw a family therapist. It’s the same set up that the school got DD into. DD sees a different ( lgbt therapist, worryingly) but that’s why I wanted to see them. shouldn’t we all be working together somehow?
Poor old Dh got so caught up in trying to justify his concerns without sounding rude about the ideology. the therapist empathised ( obviously) and gently tried to tell him to call dd her new name in order to keep communication. Other than that we just told the story.
DD letter was from CAHMS also she’s seeing them as well for 8 weeks.
We didn’t take DS as pps wisely suggested, but they said it would be better and it can’t harm. I think DS might see it as an invasion. And he hates to miss school. He doesn’t do talking about emotions. I’m not sure how he’d respond to the dynamic. And I’m not sure how I hold whatever he uncovers or thinks afterwards.
its and hour then 2 weeks between. Also it’s a borrowed room which is very ‘office’ and impersonal which surprised me. Felt like I was meeting the headmaster.
Im not an expert, but I would have thought with a 15 year old you’d need a gentler approach, maybe shorter sessions more frequently to build up some sort of trust. Aand a softer environment. I’m not happy with DS left hanging for 2 weeks without support - what if they uncover something traumatic? But I guess it’s a council run thing.
Any experiences on family therapy very welcome!

Have given up work for a couple of months as DH so tired and stressed and has a lot on. He’s booked to 180% of his capacity. Obviously insane and stressful. Actually relieved, I can catch up with everything here.

sorry for the ramble! Thanks so much for being incredible voices of reason, and sharing your stories. I hope this conversation is as useful to others as it is to me. Thank you .

OP posts:
CamilleRose · 07/02/2023 17:52

Powerful interview with a mother who transitioned her son under 5 and realized he wasn’t trans when their second son (who was not gender non conforming - whatever the hell that means! ) also told them he was a girl at 3. She was deep, deep into Gender Ideology as it aligned so much with all her other SJW beliefs and in fact sprang from them, so she saw it as positive activism on her part. I hate how trans ideology is a toxic cancer that smothers any other genuine movement (feminism, LGB rights, against racism, class analysis etc etc) that it force-teams with.

Moomoola · 07/02/2023 14:50

Totally agree, beautifully put.

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 07/02/2023 09:26

What a heart warming yet sad thread this is. Thank you all for sharing thoughts and stories. Love this from from @CamilleRose :

This ideology is tearing at the unconscious fabric between daughters and their mothers. Mothers have been demonized and daughters are encouraged to reject them as the creator of their past “dead name” life that they want to escape. When of course, most of this pain is the internal struggle to become an adult and understand themselves that we all have to navigate.

Flowers
Moomoola · 07/02/2023 09:03

Hi, What heart wrenching posts. Im so sorry for everyone who has lost mothers. To lose your mum as a young girl, well, that’s awful, beyond awful. Im so sorry.
Please no apologies for derailing ( you are all adding to) the thread - it’s so wonderful to be able to share and enlarge on all our lived experiences. Im just sorry they are so crap. I think women are amazingly strong. We create new humans ffs. How did that ever get belittled?

dd was 10/11 when she saw me whisked away in ambulances and not know when I’d return, then dad had a massive op. I was advised to take kids to see him in case it was goodbye, but didn’t want them to see the ward ( terrifying) I don’t know if that was right. But after reading your stories this will have had a massive effect I imagine.
love to you all.

OP posts:
notanicepersonapparently · 07/02/2023 08:21

I have a little experience of what you are going through, which I won’t go into here, but just wanted you to know my comments are thought through.
have you considered what the Other Mum knows about you as parents? It seems possible(even likely) that she has been told that your DD cannot return home. I’m assuming that she was steamrolled into taking in your DD with a teenage sob story of awful parents who have chucked her out/ she cannot go home/ had nowhere to live/ implied and unspecified hits of abusive behaviour (they were cross with me!). Since the reality is very different you might want to make the Other Mum aware of the facts.
If I had taken in someone else’s child I would be prepared to talk to them about it. How would you feel about going over there and telling her that you want to check she is OK and that you think the best place for her is at home with you.
Would your husband be willing to do this? He seems to want to be proactive.
It might shake things up a little if you feel the situation has stagnated. Perhaps other mum is getting tired of this arrangement and wants out?
You may think this is a terrible idea (and it may be) but since it hasn’t been suggested before I thought I would.
So sorry you are in this situation.

CamilleRose · 07/02/2023 02:52

Really feel for the women who have lost mothers on this thread. This ideology is tearing at the unconscious fabric between daughters and their mothers. Mothers have been demonized and daughters are encouraged to reject them as the creator of their past “dead name” life that they want to escape. When of course, most of this pain is the internal struggle to become an adult and understand themselves that we all have to navigate. This process has been poisoned and warped and all mistakes can now be associated with the mother or evil terf.

NitroNine · 07/02/2023 02:04

Thank you @ScrollingLeaves - at the time I didn’t really feel/understand how young I was: partly, I think, because I’d always been very mature/sensible, but also because I immediately experienced huge amounts of pressure to take responsibility for looking after my home & family. It was assumed my father would be hopeless/helpless - & of course that he’d remain so; & much was made of how young (3 years my junior) my sister was. From here, 10 is so very young to be thrown, literally overnight, into a world that makes no sense at all. It is - for me, at least, but for others I know too - a grief that gradually receded from its all-consuming nature, but rather than being “over it” I live alongside it now, as if in a house by the seashore. Sometimes when I walk along that shore, simply living my life, I will find myself swamped by a sudden inrush of sandcastle-smashing grief, or even dragged right out to sea into a crashing storm, half-drowning before I am released onto the shore once more. What I know now is that even if I’m trapped under the waters of a griefstorm, I will not actually drown. I used to long to, as a child & teenager. To simply die, not to kill myself (a sin), & make the unbearable pain of it stop. That grief is the trade-off for living mummy, being so very loved - & knowing that I was. I’m quite sure we’d’ve had dreadful rows when I was a teenager because we’re so alike, but one of the never-hads I mourn is our adult relationship. This year I will turn 40, the age mummy was when she died: the idea of becoming older than she got to be is a very strange one.

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom
Motherloss is not something people naturally respond to well, on the whole. I was bullied (I didn’t tell anyone, naturally 🙄) in my last year of primary school, which barely even registered in some ways as I was so desperately miserable (found out much later my teacher repeatedly told other staff she was hugely concerned but didn’t know what to do… so they all opted for “nothing” 🤦‍♀️). By time I finished secondary school I’d realised that my peers were responding to dreadful spectre I represented: I was proof that people’s mummies died; that they died suddenly; & that they died when they weren’t ill - ie, any of their mothers could suddenly be ripped from them at any time. People’s parents responded to that same thing by being overkind - my sister & I were overwhelmed with (unreciprocable, of course) invitations to go to tea with people after school & our fridge filled over & over with mostly-unsuitable food. (Having to keep track of whose dishes were which + ingredients + cooking instructions [once I’d got people to supply latter] was of course not at all stressful. And yes, people wanted to help & they didn’t know what to do. But they also wanted to make themselves feel better & be seen to be doing a good thing; so it does matter I was having to try to play fridge Tetris with stuff my pescatarian brother couldn’t eat & often had so much dairy I’d be ill if I tried to.) Parents saw me & signalled “please do this for my child if ever…”; but the majority of my female peers simply saw me, in a way they could not articulate, as a literal living nightmare. The boys were gentle with me - several of them were grieving mummy’s death as a personal loss, which may have made a difference - but most of the girls treated me as if I had become a monster as something monstrous had happened to me. Cruelty & spite in words & actions - mostly the physical stuff was pinching me, but going unchecked emboldened them to “accidentally” push me down the stairs & “accidentally” spray me in the eye with the deodorant. As is often the case, it was one girl leading it - & keeping her hands clean. The girl she got to spray me in the eye with deodorant seemed genuinely shocked by it having actually hurt me.

A few years ago someone from my church’s mother died the night before I was taking her two youngest girls (of four) & some others out for day. The elder of the two was 9 & had adored her granny; & we spent a bit of the day (at her instigation!) talking about there not being right or wrong ways to grieve (she was quite distressed one of her big sisters hadn’t even cried) & also not to worry about her mummy crying. She was finding it destabilising because at 9 you go to mummy when you’re upset & she makes you feel better; & instead with this she was upset too. She knew about my mummy & asked questions & apparently I managed to make her feel much more secure about all of it.

People definitely do shy away from young people who’re bereaved though. Or - as you say, who have cancer. These days they might be there to use a [tenuous] connection to them for social media likes; but actual support? Ahahahahaha no.

Girls’ responses to the deaths of their maternal grandmothers often include preemptive maternal rejection & defensive isolation; or, at the other end of the spectrum, massive separation anxiety similar to that seen in girls whose mothers are/have been seriously ill. Engaging in magical thinking of “if I’m constantly with her nothing bad can happen” - perhaps more common in younger girls, before the natural phase of separation?

•••••••••••••••••••••••••
Sorry that’s all a bit long & babbly; & I didn’t want/mean to merail your thread @Moomoola 😶

Delphinium20 · 06/02/2023 16:46

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 10:22

Nitro - I cannot even begin to imagine how unstabilising motherloss is in childhood, especially for little girls 💐

I was in my 20s and almost 20 years on I still miss her every single day. It’s like a hole, deep inside. Not in my heart, but in my gut, more like a hunger than a sadness.
I can definitely see how motherloss could kick off an eating disorder.
My daughter (aka ‘Little) feels it too, but as an echo, as she wasn’t born until 10 years later. She has a granny-shaped hole in her worldview.

Perhaps that’s one of the reasons I feel so motivated to support OP, not so much the trans thing (crikey knows there is a lot of it about) but because I treasure the mother-daughter bond* in both directions.

To be bereaved of one’s mother and have a daughter cleaved away by the mother-hating alternate-glitter-family genderwoo clan at the same time seems especially egregious and I can’t help but feel they are connected in some way.

I know that some people, mostly family members, some friends, couldn’t really stand to look at me in the early days. It was almost as if they feared my grief could be contagious, airborn, if they looked at me too long my tears would seep into them.

Similar happened when Little was in cancer treatment - childhood cancer is something off the telly, or for fundraisers in the local rag. It’s not something they want in their homes, in their kids’ schools.

I’m telling personal stories to try and avoid too much speculation and pop pyschology, but perhaps seeing your mum grieve her own mum creates complex feelings about your own (near inevitable) future motherloss?
Easier to push her away now while you have choice and control than to think about having her taken from you by death?

Dunno, something to think about maybe.

*I realise not all women have good relationships with their mothers and in someways motherloss can be a relief, or bittersweet. I’m fortunate to have had my wonderful mum for two and a half decades and that’s what stops me dissolving into a puddle of jealousy at families with living grannies/brides who have a mother-of-the-bride etc!

This is a very poignant, and heart-wrenching, post. I agree. I lost my mother when my children were very young and my oldest did struggle for a bit - she blamed me for allowing her grandmother to go to the doctor (she was young enough to believe the doctors killed her). She was very angry w/ me, but because she was so young, it wore off much quicker. W/ teens, it's likely to be a deeper, longer pain.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 06/02/2023 10:22

Nitro - I cannot even begin to imagine how unstabilising motherloss is in childhood, especially for little girls 💐

I was in my 20s and almost 20 years on I still miss her every single day. It’s like a hole, deep inside. Not in my heart, but in my gut, more like a hunger than a sadness.
I can definitely see how motherloss could kick off an eating disorder.
My daughter (aka ‘Little) feels it too, but as an echo, as she wasn’t born until 10 years later. She has a granny-shaped hole in her worldview.

Perhaps that’s one of the reasons I feel so motivated to support OP, not so much the trans thing (crikey knows there is a lot of it about) but because I treasure the mother-daughter bond* in both directions.

To be bereaved of one’s mother and have a daughter cleaved away by the mother-hating alternate-glitter-family genderwoo clan at the same time seems especially egregious and I can’t help but feel they are connected in some way.

I know that some people, mostly family members, some friends, couldn’t really stand to look at me in the early days. It was almost as if they feared my grief could be contagious, airborn, if they looked at me too long my tears would seep into them.

Similar happened when Little was in cancer treatment - childhood cancer is something off the telly, or for fundraisers in the local rag. It’s not something they want in their homes, in their kids’ schools.

I’m telling personal stories to try and avoid too much speculation and pop pyschology, but perhaps seeing your mum grieve her own mum creates complex feelings about your own (near inevitable) future motherloss?
Easier to push her away now while you have choice and control than to think about having her taken from you by death?

Dunno, something to think about maybe.

*I realise not all women have good relationships with their mothers and in someways motherloss can be a relief, or bittersweet. I’m fortunate to have had my wonderful mum for two and a half decades and that’s what stops me dissolving into a puddle of jealousy at families with living grannies/brides who have a mother-of-the-bride etc!

ScrollingLeaves · 06/02/2023 00:00

NitroNine · Today 11:44
I developed AN after sudden death of my mother when I was 10.; & if I’d been indoctrinated into believing in gender ID I’d be after saying I was non-binary. I’d also be desperate for puberty blockers because I found puberty so utterly horrific - physically, mentally & emotionally. The wee bit of me engaged in the magical thinking that if I could just keep things from changing my mummy would come back - & the terror that if they did change & she came back (it perhaps somehow all having been a terrible mistake) she’d not be able to find me &/or she’d not know me 😶
I am so sorry your mother died when you were a little girl, how very sad.
💐💐💐

NitroNine · 05/02/2023 11:44

Just caught myself up @Moomoola - am glad you got to see your DD, & agree with PPs it’s quite blatant X controls communication between your meetings.

Not paying £400 for a cat is very sensible. Adopting a pair of bonded cats/kittens from your local rescue centre is the way to go - once you’re through any home visit stuff & have a date set to visit to meet potential felines you could invite DD to go with you to help choose. Just casually “we’re going to Cats Protection on wheneverday & I wondered if you’d like to come? I was wondering about insert links to adorable felines from rescue centre website but it all depends on how they feel about us!” & if she’s a no “that’s a shame, could you help me pick out which cat tree to get? And isn’t this DJ turntable scratchpad cute? Would getting them a tank be weird? Is a wee shop too much?”

As for cat care, Cats Protection have pretty comprehensive but accessible advice; & the posters over on the Litter Tray board are always very happy to help people who’re having problems or who’re just worried.

They can be prone to mangling things; & kittens basically have two modes (zoomies & sleep); but cats are good for your health. Perhaps crucially for your household, they’ve been shown to reduce humans’ stress levels & boost well-being levels (the survey of Scottish youth aged 11-15 referenced in that last link perhaps of particular interest to you). Adopting cats rather than kittens is also not only calmer but means you’ve an idea of their personalities & needs (ie you know you’re getting a snuggle monster or an independent spirit - or anycat in-between). Or there are cats who need to be indoor cats because they’re deaf or blind or FeLV+ (but those are probably not first cat cats).

Please look after yourself in all this: it isn’t selfish to prioritise [some of] your needs & set boundaries. Are you able to get individual as well as family therapy? To have that kind of space, as well as here, to offload & explore might help - especially if you feel you may be carrying any residual trauma from the last few years.

•••••••••••••••••••••••••

I found the discussion upthread re: childhood trauma/anorexia/autism interesting. I’ve only got part of an autism diagnosis (Because Reasons - essentially not had complete assessment so they’re not allowed to say “this is a diagnosis”, but as what they said was “if assessment were completed an autism diagnosis would be given” and online tests available score me as “why did you bother taking this you autist?” I don’t think unreasonable to say I have autism?) but I developed AN after sudden death of my mother when I was 10.; & if I’d been indoctrinated into believing in gender ID I’d be after saying I was non-binary. I’d also be desperate for puberty blockers because I found puberty so utterly horrific - physically, mentally & emotionally. The wee bit of me engaged in the magical thinking that if I could just keep things from changing my mummy would come back - & the terror that if they did change & she came back (it perhaps somehow all having been a terrible mistake) she’d not be able to find me &/or she’d not know me 😶

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 05/02/2023 09:54

I agree, it is a good sign.

Here’s a few snippets from a couple of websites re: The Other Mother.

Perhaps one day, years from now, you’ll be able to look back at this time as DD’s Coraline phase.

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
CamilleRose · 05/02/2023 00:36

Also who knows whose actually writing the texts? Or at the very least they are likely to be discussed and dictated and someone is looking over her shoulder when she writes them. That’s if they are radically different to how she was communicating previously.

It is a good sign, if in her own way she is comparing her experience at home and with the other family. It may be harder to keep up the cognitive dissonance if her mum is always warm and welcoming, when others are trying to paint you as an ogre. And at times she clearly is comparing you favorably with the other mum.

FaceLikeCattle · 04/02/2023 23:33

Ooh @Moomoola, the cracks are beginning to appear in her new living arrangements. I think it's a bit step for her to tell you that living with the Other Mother is weird (love the reference @NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom). It couldn't have been easy to say because it's a bit like saying she was wrong to move out and life isn't all that peachy with the new family, after all. When she's alone and her gf isn't monitoring her, she's able to tell you these things. It shows that for all her pushing you away and unpleasant texts, she does still value your opinion and turns to you when things go wrong.

If she thinks being with the mum is a bit weird, then the family ideology is going to be less appealing. After all, who wants to become more enmeshed in a situation that is starting to feel weird?

I also wouldn't be so sure that she's waiting for an NHS letter. I wonder if the gf said to her that you shouldn't be invading her privacy by opening her letters and you needed to be told. So maybe she wrote "don't open my letters" in the same way the council might write a "keep off the grass" sign. Teenagers really struggle with empathy and she might not realise how curt the text sounded.

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