Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
Original poster
Moomoola · 15/03/2023 07:29

Thank you everyone.
DH bombarding me at 6 a.m ( don’t know how he does it, before coffee!) with ‘tell the mum this is no good for DDs future and it’s time to send DD home, also we know x was looking for help as you drink so much and hide bottles.’
He thinks that will encourage a split but like you say, not actually sure that will help. Maybe I can just call as a friendly check in to see if DD is ok, but that’s colluding. Maybe I just say she didn’t answer.

DH now wants me to leap on a plane. Or get bro to keep them there and miss their plane home.
bro is v funny - they are driving him nuts with entitlement and self centerdness.
Apparantly X threw a sulk after bros friend said, ’hello girls’. Bro was a bit pd off and said,’well tell him you’re a boy’ But x won’t because of course she’ll get abuse because the cis world hates trans. Bro a bit confused by the logic in this!
Of course, no one actually cares what she wants to be - but they’d prefer it if she was someone who’d say thank you occasionally . bros friend is apparantly now saying ‘hello boys, fancy a pint’ with a quietly naughty twinkle. 😀
bro has seen how DD is being obviously manipulated and will get her away fro an hour alone to tell her so. Whether she will be able to hear it - I don’t know. But top points to bro.
thank you everyone for your calm words again!

OP posts:
Jellycats4life · 14/03/2023 18:33

Remember the other mother has a vested interest in enabling your DD - it reminds her that she’s a good mum and she did the right thing (testosterone etc) for her own child. How she plans to fund your daughter long term is up to her.

I don’t think contacting her will do any good. It would just cement you and your husband as the bad guys, “suppressive people”, which seems to be your role in all this.

Brefugee · 14/03/2023 17:21

OP - you really have to tell your DH to pull his finger out. He must stop dumping all his expectations on you. And you must tell him that his work is interfering with your relationship and his relationship with both DCs.

And then book a holiday for you and DS that DH can come on or not.

Don't speak to X's mum, that's just a whole can of worms that doesn't need to be opened.

DarkChocHolic · 14/03/2023 10:27

Hi OP
Is DD even considering college at the moment with everything going on?
What happens if you contact other mum regarding college only to be told by DD she is planning to work and not thinking about college.
I think this isn't a question for other mum to be honest.
Sorry!

Anactor · 14/03/2023 10:21

"DH told me he’s busy at work till 11 April, so that’s easter over then. So yes, I’ll have to book something,"
Yup. You and DS need a break just as much. I'd wonder if there's anything like a weekend break that DH could take before April 11, but if he's burying himself in work, he won't.

In the meantime, if he's admitted he's busy at work 'until April 11,' possibly push him to actually book a break after April 11 with work? Going away as a family with you and DS would be great, but he needs some time for himself.

"yes, he will work till he’s ill, he’s done it before and gets cross if I point it out."
From what you've said over this thread, I'm getting real 'when the going gets tough, the tough get going," vibes from your DH. And since this is one of those situations where there's no immediate solution at hand that can be solved by decisive action, he's really struggling.

Which makes it even more important you and DS take care of yourself. You might end up looking after him, too, when he makes himself ill.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 14/03/2023 10:05

MIL against taking DS to see brother as there’s not much to do there. Thanks MIL!

Well, that's the last time you ask for her opinion, eh? Grin Who cares if there's "much to do" or not? He's a teenage boy, getting them to "do" anything is like pulling teeth. Chances are he'll happily sit on the internet until you take him out for an icecream or - by the sound of things - until dbro asks him to join him doing whatever dbro does.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 14/03/2023 09:57

DH told me he’s busy at work till 11 April, so that’s easter over then.

Can you go away without him? You can't make everything fit with his needs and DD's needs and DS's needs. Something has to give, and you and DS need the break.

If DH wont do proper self-care and take annual leave then you can't do it for him. You can't make him look after himself properly, just as you can't make DD come home. All you can do is try to muddle along and make sure everyone - especially you! - get your basic needs met.

My instinct is not to contact the mother, but I feel a pressure off DH to.

Your DH isn't showing patience or good judgment, not about taking a holiday, not about meeting DD, and not about contacting the Mum. I am sure he can come up woth a gazillion reasons why his way is the right way, but underlying it all is just blind panic and clutching at straws.

Your instincts are more reliable. Plus you have us for a reality check. Smile But seriously who does he have? Just you really. So trust your own judgment (which is another word for instinct) and keep telling him no. Flowers

Original poster
Moomoola · 14/03/2023 09:20

Thanks guys. I’m reading mn looking for answers instead of getting on!

anactor yes we do need a break. DH told me he’s busy at work till 11 April, so that’s easter over then. So yes, I’ll have to book something and yes, he will work till he’s ill, he’s done it before and gets cross if I point it out.

2rebecca thanks. My instinct is not to contact the mother, but I feel a pressure off DH to.
I am trying not to look at our relationship at the moment. 😳

OP posts:
2Rebecca · 14/03/2023 09:07

Don't contact the other mother. She probably doesn't have any plans and it will look as though you are using money as a bargaining tool. Your husband will just have to be more patient. This isn't something he can control. He needs to just give things time. Him being an angry ranty person isn't helping anyone and he will drive you and his son away from him if he doesn't stop obsessing over things he can't control.

Anactor · 14/03/2023 09:05

He's forgotten that he cancelled first, I think. Or would rather not remember because he's feeling guilty about it.

As an adult, he did the right thing. For an angsty teenager, it's more proof that 'Dad cares about his work more than me.' Likewise, blowing up at X and X's mum will do nothing other than convince your daughter DH hates the 'real her' and won't let her be her 'authentic self'.

You all need a holiday - two weeks, if you can manage it. Blowing up like this is a sign that DH needs one just as desperately - between stress at work and home, he's heading for burn-out or something.

Book one for you and DS and then tell DH that you don't want him doing anything until you've all had a bit of time to decompress. Tell him you've booked a holiday for you and DS but you'd like him to join you whenever he can manage it.

Original poster
Moomoola · 14/03/2023 08:44

Thanks beastly this was a few days later. DD agreed to see us then cancelled citing lack of trust, referring back to Xmas when she did a bunk and we tried to get her home. It didn’t sound like the language she’d use.

this ties in with Jeffrey marsh who says ‘if your parents get upset when you tell them you want to go no contact, well..it tells you something. If your parents say they will work on themselves well that tells you something.’
its in the link Kindly provided by jellycats on the previous page. It’s chilling. He cleverly lets the teenage brain fill in what it tells you - and doesn’t take into account that obviously parents will be emotional at such a bombshell, and maybe…it’s because they are actually shocked and are not transphobic ffs.

As you say, im trying to be cool calm and collected, and not get sucked into DH s wilder ideas. This thread is invaluable for calm advice so many many thanks to everyone who is taking the time to post.

beastly I don’t understand how it’s clear I’m prioritising DH over DD? I would like to know as I obviously want DD to know shes totally loved.

one more piec of advice needed! Sorry, I can’t think straight-
DH would like me to contact other mum and ask what are her plans, will she fund DD through college etc.
is that a good idea? It’s very odd that DD has been there since Xmas and apart from one polite meeting where she recommended the local equivalent of the Tavistock clinic and a text saying it’s nothing to do with her but it’s between x and DD, there’s been no contact between us.
It’s been hard not to phone and say, that’s enough now.

i think I’d have to tell DD I was doing this or it will be twisted I imagine.
should I tell DD and contact the mum?
DD says the mum is very happy for her to stay and won’t accept housekeeping money.
It’s nearly 3 months. DH has seen her once. I’ve seen her 3 or 4 times. She won’t come in the house or get in the car.
thanks.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 13/03/2023 23:59

Has your DH forgotten it was him who cancelled on her?

Sorry but you need to stop getting drawn into your husband's hysteria if you want to be a safe person for your daughter to turn to. At the moment it's clear you prioritise him over her.

Original poster
Moomoola · 13/03/2023 23:42

Thanks mum you are lovely!
DH came home early with a full on rant about how we need to talk to the mum, tell DD that x isn’t giving anything up. I should have called DDs chum, the school.. I gave up work to get DD back etc etc. I should be thinking about it all the time like he is ( I am).
he’s really upset by DD. He’s upset because he was so keen to see her last week and then she cancelled and said she’d see us when she got back from brothers as she didn’t want to be stressed meeting us if we were going to say anything stressful. He’s fed up, as am I, that we are tip toeing around. He says being nice isn’t working, it’s time to call the mum and I’m not doing that because it’s hard, being nice to DD is easy.
He’s obviously exhausted and concerned. I keep telling him to relax, I don’t want DS to pick up on stress, and now he’s said I’m trying to tell him he’s the one at fault.
MIL against taking DS to see brother as there’s not much to do there. Thanks MIL!
and thanks again everyone for cool voices of reason. Appreciated more than you know!

OP posts:
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 13/03/2023 09:58

And book whichever trip suits you and DS best, Paris or your bro. Or even both! Smile

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 13/03/2023 09:50

DH talking about booking London and Eurostar to Paris for Easter, but can't tell me how much time he can take off.

You can't fix everything for everyone. You do need to look after yourself as well.

Can you make bookings for yourself and DS, and leave it up to DH to come along for whatever time he can? It might be even be less stressful for DH if you book separately. That gives him a timeframe he can work towards without having you and DS hanging on his workplace demands, so he can still be flexible if he needs to.

Original poster
Moomoola · 13/03/2023 09:22

Thank you scrolling that's very powerful indeed.
I'll forward it to brother.
Have to focus on my self as am feeling v wierdy at DD and X being in my mum's house where bro now lives. Desperately want to see bro.
DH talking about booking London and Eurostar to Paris for Easter, but can't tell me how much time he can take off. ,🙄So tempted just to see bro with DS. But DH needs a break too.
Just can't have another school holiday where we go nowhere.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 12/03/2023 20:32

Linked in this thread title below (posted today) is an extraordinarily powerful speech from a transman. I wondered if you had seen it?

I defy anyone to listen and not take heed. I realise you cannot possibly send it to your dd without risking your delicate relationship with her, but I don’t know if your brother possibly could get her to see it with him at some point in the future?

Transman Scott Newgent delivers powerful speech

Original poster
Moomoola · 11/03/2023 08:13

Thanks everyone. I read your lovely pots a while back, but you are right mum feeling a bit drained!
as always, thanks for the amazing advice.
mum youve helped me realise a visit with brother - later! - would be a good idea, to bond again. I’d like it anyway, and I’m a bit lacking in confidence to book somewhere unknown at the mo. Leaving her x and bro to it. It’s good she has a naughty uncle who is v caring.
Thanks itsa the job thing is a problem. Obv DH earns way more than me. He does tend to bat stuff he can’t handle on to me. He is coming round to the ‘we can only offer love’ idea and was very supportive when I was super upset. He is saying we’llfocus on us three. He’s still having difficulty getting over the hurt.

jellycat thankyou for the links. What an unutterable creep. And worse is he’s very clever and very persuasive. The second film where he says,’if you’re parents are shocked, leave, but if they are totally accepting and say,‘I’ll work on myself too’ is evilly clever - I’ll watch it as a mum and think,’oooh I’d better do that then!’nasty.

I’ll send them to brother. He ( and I) keep thinking of this as a ‘DD wanting an adventure’ DH reminds me, it’s not just that- there is a definite mother hating ideology going on. You’re right clog.
Thanks clog and brefugee no she doesn’t contact him at all. She’s basically cut herself off apart from the odd text to me ( which I initiate) and brother. As DH says, x hasn’t given up anything.
fxxing Jeffry marsh.

OP posts:
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 08/03/2023 16:03

I also think it would be good for you to do something healing just for yourself. Not for DD, not for DH, not even for DS. Because you sound really drained. Whether what feels heling is a trip to visit your brother or a luxury holiday with DH or something quite different. It doesn't have to be with anyone else from the family, only if the thought lifts your heart. Something just for you.

You know what they say, put your own lifejacket on first.

Brefugee · 08/03/2023 13:35

agree with the others, OP, keep up the loose contact you have. Text (WhatsApp - however you usually do it) as often as you have been. Make a suggestion to meet up to make up for missing the film/event/last meet up and then wait. Let your DC do the running for the actual meetings, and in yourself bear always in mind that nothing you write is private, nothing you say is private and everything that comes back to you is filtered through your DCs friend/family.

Don't let yourself get set up for disappointment. Made arrangements to see a film? take DS or go alone. Made arrangements to meet for coffee? go for coffee. Carry on doing regular things, but don't make elaborate arrangements.

Your DH needs to be on board. He isn't. Ignore him. Take him out of the equation and re-establish your relationship (with both DCs tbh). Your DHs relationship with his DCs is his business.

How is your DS getting on? Does he have contact with his sibling (don't pry into this, if they do)

TheClogLady · 08/03/2023 13:28

Jellycats4life · 08/03/2023 13:12

can I call her later and say how difficult it is to be kept on tenterhooks?
how can I see her without x being in the background?
thanks. Sorry needy mum here.

I think maybe you should avoid saying that, as much as it is true. Just remember that as long as she keeps you at arm’s length, she can convince herself that you are the bad guy. If she actually sees you and speaks to you, that facade might crumble, and she doesn’t want that. She needs you to be the bad guy. This is how cults work. Trans and queer social media is awash with young people painting their parents as evil people who refuse to accept their new identity.

Look at Jeffrey Marsh. Tiktok has exploded with people finally calling him out for his videos, a huge proportion of which try to persuade young people to go no contact with their parents.

Here are just two examples (I’m linking to Twitter because it’s more accessible than Tiktok - so pay no mind to the fact I’m linking to Oli London, who is an… interesting character):

twitter.com/unhealthytruth/status/1631504097089126400?s=46&t=lcIjyf-T8Zq2cPm1YxSFcw

twitter.com/olilondontv/status/1632693577514995712?s=46&t=lcIjyf-T8Zq2cPm1YxSFcw

This isn’t just a woman-hating ideology, it’s specifically a mother-hating ideology 😢

I’d put a wager on that there they/them being arrested for something pretty serious within the next three years tops.

TheClogLady · 08/03/2023 13:25

I pretty much agree with everything @MumOfYoungTransAdult says and agree with @Jellycats4life that telling her anything like that is unlikely to help.

Just keep with the light texting and ask your DH to do the same. He’s the one she seems to back away from, so he’s the one who need to work on that relationship - you can’t do it on their behalves, no matter how much you’d like to. It’s not a 3rd party job.

Hopefully your brother will be able to report back with a fuller picture of how your DD is and how she and X are together - I reckon it’s probably a good thing if they spend the summer outside of X’s mum & dad’s home and with your brother instead. They’ll probably find it even harder to sustain any additional identity/pronoun stuff in a foreign country (especially if they have to speak a different language?)

Totally agree that of course you must see your family home this year, it’s exactly where I’d want to be in your circumstances, but don’t chase DD down there, go when YOU want to go and take DS too. Perhaps towards the end of the summer if DD does end up working there for a few months (although that might not be that easy, especially not for X, unless it’s Ireland? Brexit has made it much harder to pick up casual summer jobs)

Jellycats4life · 08/03/2023 13:12

can I call her later and say how difficult it is to be kept on tenterhooks?
how can I see her without x being in the background?
thanks. Sorry needy mum here.

I think maybe you should avoid saying that, as much as it is true. Just remember that as long as she keeps you at arm’s length, she can convince herself that you are the bad guy. If she actually sees you and speaks to you, that facade might crumble, and she doesn’t want that. She needs you to be the bad guy. This is how cults work. Trans and queer social media is awash with young people painting their parents as evil people who refuse to accept their new identity.

Look at Jeffrey Marsh. Tiktok has exploded with people finally calling him out for his videos, a huge proportion of which try to persuade young people to go no contact with their parents.

Here are just two examples (I’m linking to Twitter because it’s more accessible than Tiktok - so pay no mind to the fact I’m linking to Oli London, who is an… interesting character):

twitter.com/unhealthytruth/status/1631504097089126400?s=46&t=lcIjyf-T8Zq2cPm1YxSFcw

twitter.com/olilondontv/status/1632693577514995712?s=46&t=lcIjyf-T8Zq2cPm1YxSFcw

ItsaMetalBand · 08/03/2023 11:44

WandaWomblesaurus · 07/03/2023 23:46

This feels really unfair - blaming the parents for dd deciding she is trans when billions of children grow up in abusive situations and don't suddenly decide they are the opposite sex.

Show quote history

It's harsh, but I don't think it's unfair.

I think that the OP is doing an excellent job here.

But she's also getting no support -practical or otherwise, from her husband. She's bent over backwards to try to do everything she can in this very difficult situation and grieving her mum, is sick with worry over her DD, and he's too busy to help, prioritises work by default, has forced the OP to give up work to deal with this, all the while disagreeing with how she is handling this and avoiding his own DD because of his own shortcomings.

He's only a hindrance and a liability in all of this. But still thinks he's the expert who can mansplain and argue with his wife and his DD on a situation he knows fuck all about. He's showing exactly why in their world, being a bloke is preferable and being a woman or girl is the pits. Why, if he was so adamant that DD needed a full time SAHP, and the OP clearly adored her job, that he didn't offer to be that person? He didn't because he never saw it as his responsibility. He still doesn't.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 08/03/2023 10:43

Is that her? Is it x saying We’d be cross ( x has said that before, which made DD nervous to see me)

Who knows? It could be anything - it could be her friend, or DD could be punishing her father for bailing on her, or she could be feeling guilty about upsetting you/DH and reframing that as you being angry with her. Or she could just be a casual selfish teen who has something else to do that day and making excuses.

I’m sure she thinks it’s just a convenient place to stay while they see if they can get summer jobs.

Surely it means something to her too? It's her uncle's house and it was her grandmother's house. Is it painful that she wants to share your special space and hers with her friend?

DH says I should pop over there too. Should I?

What's the benefit? Will it achieve anything except to cause you more distress?

Could you visit your family house when DD isn't there, just to connect with bro and with your own memories? Or maybe take DS. You and bro could spend some time together and some time with DS, some calm relaxed time, even if it's too early to swim.

As for the family holiday, I wouldn't worry too much about DS being entertained. Yes it's only fair that there should be something he'll enjoy but if he's got his gadgets and wifi, he'll be fine.

I can’t compete DD is obv enjoying her new life.

It's not a competition. It's healthy for DD to be out having fun. Way better than sitting at home with her friend obsessing about their gender identities and jerking you and her father around. It sounds as if your brother's a good influence on DD and a good family connection for DD, less loaded than her relationship with you and DH.

You're doing amazingly well at such a difficult time, honestly!

Swipe left for the next trending thread