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Original poster

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
GrumpyPanda · 03/07/2023 19:39

@Moomoola just catching up on the last few days. Re the acronym thing - my preferred version is LGBTQWTF, or make that TQWTF.

Original poster
Moomoola · 03/07/2023 19:19

Thank you mammat . You are all saying the same thing - continually! Sorry to be dull. DH says ‘do domething!’ Id love to - I just don’t think it will work, As you know. I think it’s a male thing.
I made DH a nice dinner, but DH very tired, very sad, very ..it’s horrible to see. He’s gone to bed , it’s 7.12 and DS is computering in his room.
I will call the mum tomorrow, in a friendly fashion.
this is going on far too long. Even I’m bored, thank you all for sticking around.

OP posts:
mammat72 · 03/07/2023 18:26

sadly nothing anyone can says on here will help, if you try and advise/help/counselling your daughter will feel you are trying to control her and she will retaliate. i know it is hard but all you can do is allow her to do what she is doing and she is going to have to learn from her mistakes. better to be in her life and just listen then try to help/fix/solve whatever is going on with her. as for the girlfriends mother like to saying goes keep your friends close but your enemies closer. just message her and say i really appreciate you letting dd stay with you. when your daughter talks to you just listen and ask her how it makes her feel and what she needs and wants sadly you cannot try to influence or control anything with this disorder. just know this site is a safe space and if you need to talk reach out. weve got you x

Original poster
Moomoola · 03/07/2023 18:26

Oh dodo that made me laugh, fundamentally immature here - except I’d never win! roses you are right, I’ll be very civil and nice. We are both tired and stressed.
nice dinner coming up!
thanks, you’ve talked me down from a ledge - with a lot of pottery for throwing on it - except, to be fair he’s knackered after a long day and I’ve just wimped about being depressed.

OP posts:
RoseslnTheHospital · 03/07/2023 18:18

I'd make him a normal dinner and be normally civil. No need to do anything above and beyond that.

DodoPatrol · 03/07/2023 18:16

Oh, tell him to piss off.

Whatever you do would be wrong at the moment. I'd have a good rant at him and possibly throw things because I'm fundamentally immature.

Original poster
Moomoola · 03/07/2023 18:10

Thank you so much scrolling, you are right. I’ll make him a nice dinner, and be nice.
life is too short to rant at each other, tho it’s tempting! 😁

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 03/07/2023 18:07

Ignore him for now. He’s tired and wound up and cannot think in a balanced way. My advice for the moment would be just to have something to eat, go for a walk?, have a rest.

I am so sorry, what an upsetting time this is for you all 💐

Original poster
Moomoola · 03/07/2023 17:47

I’m being a wimp, and I’m sure this should go on relationships, but..
spent day with DS, who is bored and worried about holidays. I’m trying, and not succeeding to perk myself up. Been a down day.
DH calls and I say, no, I haven’t got anywhere with DD. - she’s not replied to my text, suprise. He says he can’t cope with work and me nor getting anywhere, it’s time to toughen up, go see the mum. I say, ok, but what will it achieve? ( yes, I know we’ve been here before)
DH told me to find a holiday and now is dismissing any holidays ideas - he’s now saying he had a bad day at work, he needs to leave, he doesn’t want to spend money on holidays in case. I’ve just inherited 10,000 euros, I thought he’d be pleased. and I said, ‘well I’d like to go back to work.’ He said I don’t earn enough, I’d earn more if we moved down south, we have to move.
I mean what? We were talking about holidays and now we have to move house?
i don’t get it. If I should post on relationships I shall, just that I like you lot, you are wise beyond belief, and have seen it all.

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 29/06/2023 22:09

jellycts thanks for the tweet, that’s very powerful. mavis and bez absolutely. and name5 yes, who doesn’t want to hide under big men’s jumpers, like androgeny ( Annie lennox, Bowie) and construct their own reality at some stage? I remember trying to be David Cassidy (!) and trying to get my flared jeans to flap in rhythm not flop together!
delphinium that’s nice, but sadly if you go to
https://pitt.substack.com/archive there are sadly a LOT of stories.

this was posted on another thread - just in case anyone is interested in why this is happening ll at once everywhere. fascinating-
https://www.frc.org/blog/2021/04/staggering-reach-billionaire-transgender-activists
thanks, and
☕️🍰 to all.

Archive - Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans (PITT)

Full archive of all the posts from Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans (PITT).

https://pitt.substack.com/archive

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 29/06/2023 18:15

Oh, and I'm in the States so not up late for my time zone :)

Delphinium20 · 29/06/2023 18:15

Not at all ranty! I just wanted to make sure you knew I am on your side!

You know what, though, your explanation of what you did when your DD first left is now documented (anon, of course) and it will show countless people who lurk but don't comment the reality behind what trans does to families. Maybe you could share someday with Genspect or similar. Flowers

Name5 · 29/06/2023 13:11

@Jellycats4life thank you so much for the twitter clip. My DD said exactly the same. Didn't want to be a woman but didn't know why she wanted to be a man.

BezMills · 29/06/2023 10:06

so many young women report not wanting to be a woman during their teenage years. Telling them transing as a way out is, frankly, child abuse. That's my opinion.

We need to own up. Instead of telling young women they have a problem, we adults need to admit that there is a lot of adult bullshit in the world coming their way, and it's NOT their fault.

MavisMcMinty · 29/06/2023 10:03

Well thank goodness for that surgeon! If only more clinicians were so honest, this clusterflip would never have got going. The constant affirmation and blind acceptance of their “gender dysphoria” does not help these young people, it escalates the likelihood of them taking damaging drugs and mutilating their bodies.

Jellycats4life · 29/06/2023 09:51

My take on “I don’t feel safe” is it’s an emotionally manipulative phrase used to instantly shut down a conversation when a young person starts hearing some truths they don’t want to hear.

On a related note, this long tweet from a detransitioner talks about how she caused dysphoria in herself, constructed a fake reality around herself, and idolised a version of herself that didn’t exist. Of course I knew all this is true of trans teens but it’s so powerful to hear a detrans person lay it out like that. Especially the rage she felt when her fantasy was taken away from her by a sensible (non-affirming!) doctor. That’s what they mean by not feeling safe: not being able to luxuriate in their fake reality.

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Original poster
Moomoola · 29/06/2023 07:25

Sorry delphinium I realized after I’d posted that it sounded a bit ranty, it wasn’t meant to be - I think I was trying to reassure myself that we’d done everything. It really is bizarre that everywhere you turn, you are the bad one for not being accepting enough. I also think this is designed to be done at Christmas so that of course, everywhere who might help is shut. Not that it helps when they’re open!
and you are up at 3.30! I hope you get some sleep soon! 🌺🌺🌺🌺back atcha.

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 29/06/2023 03:21

Moo. By no means was I suggesting you and DH didn't do enough. I didn't know that 16 is the cutoff age in Scotland. I'm so sorry for all that. It's just so wrong. My heart breaks for you family. FlowersFlowersFlowersFlowers

Original poster
Moomoola · 29/06/2023 00:43

MissMissive · 28/06/2023 20:04

‘I don’t feel safe’ could also equal ‘I don’t like the uncomfortable feelings I get when the idea that all this is rubbish is raised’ / ‘I don’t like the feelings of being normal and not special’ / ‘I don’t like the thought that if I’m not trans I might have to deal with the actual reasons for my feelings’ / ‘Who even am I if I’m not part of the trans community’ / ‘How would I admit that I did all of this for a fad’ / ‘If my parents aren’t mean and bad and wrong what does that make me’

faffer and missive yes, and this I think too. Especially after reading some of the trans subreddits.
thanks for all your kindness re therapists. I keep thinking how they ended the last session with,’it could have been sorted by now’’oh yes, a lot earlier’ I think they are referring to DH saying he wouldn’t use pronouns, though he then capitulated and now won’t again. I say,’play the system, then we can discuss pronouns, when we can actually talk to her. ‘ but he’s read that they are the gateway - just a shame we didn’t know when she was 15 and the school called us.
thanks all. You are very patient!
This
https://dustymasterson.substack.com/p/rapid-onset-terfing?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
might be useful. It is a letter by two 14 year olds explaining what it’s like to be in school atm.
please read and share!

Rapid Onset Terfing

Update 150

https://dustymasterson.substack.com/p/rapid-onset-terfing?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 29/06/2023 00:25

Thanks all. delphinium of course we looked at what could be done. We registered it with the police, consulted a lawyer, asked consumer advise beureau, at 16 she is considered an adult here in Scotland. One lovely policeman said he’d like nothing more than to go round there, but he can’t and he advised us not to or they could get us arrested and make out we’d been aggressive (DH is a big chap). Another policewoman virtually accused us of being transphobic, as did the lgbtq bit of woman’s aid. Childline couldn’t help as I’m an adult, but recommended Mermaids, ditto NSPCC, as did a counselor friend. A teacher friend seems to think I’m not using pronouns enough. In short, there was nothing we could do. The mum seemed to think it was fine she was there, didn’t want money for food ( I wasn’t offering), and at the bottom of the list, DD said ‘it has been hard, sometimes hellish’ but she needed to do it for her own mental health. So any social worker etc will just say, well she’s happy and being fed.
It’s just that we know how hard DD finds boundaries. She said Xmas day was spent in a cold skatepark with X and Xs mate who doesn’t like DD. I’d have said,’see you later, I’m off to get my presents’ but she didn’t/couldn’t.
The only option would have been to call social services and our social services friend said that the most they would do would be to call DD and if she said she was fine, fine. They might go to the flat, but if it was clean and no obvious signs of dodginess they wouldn’t do anything, but they might investigate us as we get the impression that DD has told the school we are abusive. What she means by that I’ve no idea - it’s a catch all, scary term. Even her doctor said she couldn’t contact DDs new doctor and it would depend on the new doctors views as to whether she gets enrolled for a GIDs. Of course I wrote to the new doctor.
All doors are locked, and the people you’d normally turn to for help and advice are not there. This is why it ‘s so terrifying, as I’m sure many of you know. The parents meeting I popped into was full of professionals with anonymous names, too nervous to speak out. They were Having a secret meeting after being harassed when trying to hold a more public one. An 18 yr old bravely spoke up about the crap in her school and the culture of fear. It is absolutely terrifying and insane.

phew!
clog I send you all absolutely massive hugs. I googled cushingoid state and it seems yet another thing for you all to go through, cancer really is the disease that keeps giving. I’m so sorry, it’s relentless and never mind wearing pink and running marathons, the disease IS a bloooming marathon. You are immensely strong, and wise and I’m overcome by your generosity in posting on here. F**ck, you’ve been through it.

wednesday LGBTQIXYZLMNOP made me laugh, that’ll be the new alphabet posters for schools then! I might make it into a t shirt😊I’m very very glad your daughter shows sense. Well done daughter!
mavis I’ll post on your thread! Especially a positive one like that

OP posts:
MissMissive · 28/06/2023 20:04

‘I don’t feel safe’ could also equal ‘I don’t like the uncomfortable feelings I get when the idea that all this is rubbish is raised’ / ‘I don’t like the feelings of being normal and not special’ / ‘I don’t like the thought that if I’m not trans I might have to deal with the actual reasons for my feelings’ / ‘Who even am I if I’m not part of the trans community’ / ‘How would I admit that I did all of this for a fad’ / ‘If my parents aren’t mean and bad and wrong what does that make me’

Faffertea · 28/06/2023 19:40

I think sometimes ‘it makes me feel unsafe’ or references to safety can be a subconscious way of saying “I find what you’re saying challenging/challenges my world view or belief system” so it’s really thinking about the security (safety) of those beliefs when held up to the light or confronted with reality. #nodebate wasn’t just a way of trying to stop critical questioners, it was also a way to ensure the followers don’t question themselves.

I think also that sometimes it’s not our job as parents to make our children feel safe all the time once they are past being small children. It’s not our job to make the world emotionally safe and wrap them in cotton wool. We make them safe by giving them belief in their own worth as they are and by supporting them in facing them unsafe aspects of our world.

Moo I think time to get a new therapist (if you want one) who is able to keep their opinions to themselves. They are there to help you explore your feelings, not judge your actions and most therapists I know steer away from offering advice on what their clients should be doing.

As for responding to DD I think telling her that it is not your intention to make her feel unsafe but that she also needs to understand she is hurting you too.

Delphinium20 · 28/06/2023 19:10

Zebracat · 28/06/2023 18:58

But she is 18. And even under 18, that would be wrong. And guarantees status as trans kid most in need of protecting. IMO anyway.

true for this current situation, but what about prior when she was a minor? The glitter families are not being held accountable.

MavisMcMinty · 28/06/2023 19:10

FriendofJoanne · 28/06/2023 16:50

@MavisMcMinty 😂I think we could do a whole thread of interpretations of "I don't feel safe" or things which make TRAs feel 'unsafe' in general. It seems to be mainly words that make them feel unsafe: mostly it boils down to "I don't like what you're saying" maybe even "I know you're right but that's unbearable to me so shut up" and "la la la I'm not listening and you can't make me"

Heh, you start it, I’ve had no luck starting threads on here.

Delphinium20 · 28/06/2023 19:09

Moo, I'm so angry on your behalf that the therapist suggested you and your DH did something wrong. Even though I can see your DH doesn't react the best, I honestly don't see any red flags in either of you being bad parents - you are loving and rightfully worried! Your DH's panic reactions are even understandable - he dearly loves your DD and this is uncharted territory. There's no roadmap for him and he doesn't have the female socialization like you do to seek out friends and support on MN. frankly too bad there isn't an equivalent MN for dads.

That therapist was so out of line they should be ashamed. Sometimes therapy is good, but sometimes it's worse than unhelpful. I hope your support here tells you that we care about you and think of you and your DD and family.

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