Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

I'm so glad it doesn't sound totally ridiculous. I actually stopped because I had to go out but I'll continue now. (You can tell how much I've been thinking about what I'd do if this was me).

You need to be able to give her this letter and phone away from 'x'. I'd contact her and tell her I want to meet her for ten minutes alone. That I want to give her something before you go away. Assure her no heavy chat. But x mustn't be there. Id buy her a lovely gift. Then when you meet, give her the gift and the letter and the phone. Have a cup of tea and leave. Ask her to stay a bit longer to read the letter privately first. Tell her you'd prefer it if she didn't share it, but accept that she might. However ask her, as her mother, to keep the phone private. That this is important to you. I would also tell her that you plan to write to x's parents when you get back from holiday to finalise things and keep them posted about what you've said to her. Then tell her how much she means and you'll send her a family update when back from your holiday.

If you get back from holiday to a changed situation you can re-think. I don't think you will though. So my last thing would be to write to the parents telling them you e communicated with DD and explain in broad brush strokes what you've said to her.

But I'd also go further, and ask them to reflect on the impact they've had on your family, and how much damage they've done by enabling this. Id ask them to imagine their own DD doing this to them, and imagine how they'd feel losing their child because a third party has manipulated and concocted abuse. Remind them that they are the adults, but because you've been forced out of your child's life, they are now the adults who will have the most significant influence over choices and decisions that could affect the rest of her life. I would also state that you believe there's an element of coercive control that their DD has over your DD, and coercive control that results in devastating outcomes could be construed as criminal (am I going too far?). Ask them to reflect very seriously on what's going on, and to be the adults. But tell them - whether they do engage or not - you've made it very clear to DD that you love her, but that you need to step back because this has damaged everyone in your family and you need to re-build and heal. Make sure they know she can come back with unconditional love at any time.

I'd get DH to meet the other father to get a feeling for wtf is going on in his house. Are they complying because they're worried they'll lose their DD, or are they fuckwits?
Then hand over the letter. Assume though that he might not show his wife, so post a copy to her as well.

Then after all that focus 100% on you DH and DS. Once a month send her a that give her family news. But nothing more than that.

I think 'x' will go ballistic. But without any further contacts to stew on or manipulate, their relationship will have to be based on something else. Hopefully it stops being exciting without drama.

FWIW - I loathe x with a passion and I'm not even involved in this. All the best to all of you, and I really hope you can find your way to normalcy again.

Wow @wednesdaynamesep that's so amazing and insightful. Wonderful advice.

wow so thoughtful. It's almost too hard to read, but thanks for posting it. I hope I never find myself in that position where I need to call on wisdom like that.

Flowers @Moomoola , you are going through a lot.

Hi @Moomoola , Ive been following this thread from the beginning. I have teens and this is my worst nightmare and I feel like I've suffered your pain on this journey. I don't have the experience of others on this thread but a couple of thoughts which I hope others will dismiss immediately if I'm totally wrong.

X's mother

It feels like something weird going on here. I can only go on your second-hand words, but she seems oddly passive, oddly happy to accept full costs of another adult person in her home, oddly unbothered by the fact she is, in a practical sense, enabling massive friction in another family. I have wondered throughout if she is on a parallel journey with her own DD, and this scenario is one she is tolerating for some reason in the hope it will play out and resolve something in her own DD...? The latest reference to her mental health also feels significant. It feels like she might be dominated by her DD massively. Somethings not right. Have you or your DH considered approaching the father at all? Asking for a father to father chat? Is he as controlled by X as she is? Are they tolerating all this for a reason we can't see?

X

It definitely feels like coercive control and gaslighting. Your brother's comments are interesting too. It shows X loves a fight, loves the drama, is consumed by the 'activist' element of this cult. I think every comment you make is twisted analysed injected with rage and regurgitated. Your villainy isn't limited to your opinions on trans issues, she's cast you as villains in terms of parenting, your actual lifelong relationship with your DD. How much of the allure of your DD is the drama? What happens if the rope just suddenly goes slack? They are seventeen, what are the odds this relationship lasts forever? What happens if x finds another victim to rescue and save? Where does that leave DD? Still living in the same home while x embarks on a new relationship? Unlikely.

Your DD

I think (possibly) the security of your love for her partly supports this adventure. She's taking so much for granted, and her characterisation of you is unkind.Yes, she is a child, yes she is being controlled, but she is also behaving badly. I think as well as every contact being 'stressful' or 'unwanted', it's also a reminder to her she has options. Both sides want her: you and x.

Way forward

I can't believe I'm thinking this, because this would be unbelievably hard for me to do with my own DD. But I'm thinking you, your DH, your son need to focus on the three of you now, or you will end up like x's mum. YOUR lives dominated by one person (X via your DD) and this toxic harmful ideology.

I would consider writing a letter to DD.

Start with a complete expression of unconditional love. Tell her you are missing her. Tell her to know with 100% certainty that no matter what her choices are, she always has a home with you and your love. Tell her that no matter how she feels in the future - scared, alone, shame, guilt - that you will welcome her with love and provide her with a safe secure space.

Then tell her you accept that she is seventeen. That even though she is still, to you, your beloved child, you accept that you have very little control or influence over her choices or decisions. This is the tough part - tell her you recognise you need to let go. She's on her own, but she can always always come back. Stress this massively.

Tell her your not letting go because you've given up on her, but because you believe your words and love are being manipulated to fuel a drama and make things worse. That this does not serve her well and it is having a terrible impact on the three of you as well.

I would tell her, that because she's seventeen, she is entitled to know the raw truth. That you've given up your job because you've been so concerned about her and have wanted to be available to her; that DH is falling apart, oscillating between fear and anger coupled with work stress; that her brother has retreated into games and silence; that home doesn't feel like a great place right now. Everyone is miserable. I would also add in that you have zero doubt x will tell her this is all emotional blackmail - but tell her she needs to understand that this is why you are pulling back. Not because you are abandoning her, but because life and your home needs to feel normal again. Tell her you've started family therapy and you are now focussing on rebuilding. If she ever chooses to come home, it will be to a welcoming happy healthy home.

If this was my DD, I'd tell her I had three huge fears: one that she'd do something she'd regret for the rest of her life that would permanently change her body and cause her lifelong emotional distress, but that you recognise this love for her and concern is being cast as intolerance and hate. Second, that you are terrified you've lost her and that she's rejected her family, but you now believe continuing to engage makes things worse. Third, that she'd end up in abusive relationship.

I would tell her you fear that the third might be the case. That you fear x is controlling her, manipulating your words against you, conjuring up evidence of villainy out of nothing. Tell her the biggest red flag of coercive control is when someone tries to split their partner away from their family and friends. Tell her to be wary of demands to read her texts on her phone, demands to always be present when meeting other friends. Tell her to be mindful that at the end of the day you are a big- standard normal loving family, not hateful, abusive etc. Tell her she should know that deep down herself.

I would give her a cheap phone and store on it your and DHs numbers, woman's aid and any other numbers that might help her. I would ask her to hide this phone, keep it safe, but see it as a future lifeline if she ever needs it.

Then I'd say goodbye. Reiterate love. Tell her it's up to her from now on to keep in touch if she wishes too, to ask to meet if she wants to. Tell her if you hear nothing from her you will restrict yourself to a single text once a month which you will use to update her on the family.

Gosh - that's long.

Also, wtf is your MILs problem? She needs to (and I HATE this phrase) wind her neck in re: what you and DS are doing - her opinion on your holiday destination is entirely unhelpful!

Hello @Moomoola

I've been away for a bit, and thinking of you! Sorry to hear it's gone a bit crazy. The panto villain stuff is outside your control. You're still doing a fantastic job.

It's good that DH made that that effort, even if it didn't turn out as he hoped. My pigs-eye view of how this works is that girlfriend/othermum yank DD's chain, DD yanks DH's chain, and then DH yanks your chain(!) And you are trying to keep the peace and do the best for everyone. Your DH is struggling in a situation where he tries things, they don't always work, at best it's steps forward then steps back and progress can be invisible or easily swept away. Equally, he is not suddenly going to manage his anxiety in a less aggressive and controlling way, or instantly change his parenting to be calmer more positive and less reactive. So that's going to be a slow process with slipbacks too.

It is very positive for yourself and your family each time you can stick to your own agenda despite everything that tries to derail you. One important decision you already made is to go on holiday with DS at Easter. So, stay on track for that. Maybe you feel stymied about the holiday because there is no best decision, 9 days or 11 days, both are good decisions. Book it and then it's done.

And as for going to back to work - when would you like to go back? Sounds as if DH was just expressing his own helpless frustration, it doesn't really sound as if you working will make a difference to DD's situation. And it's not forever - if you find you're struggling, you could stop again. Maybe going back to work is something to think about while you're away.

I wouldn't remove her stuff. She could see that as you throwing her out and it may make it harder for her to return when she wants to. It's very likely she will return if the door is kept open. I wouldn't make life easy for her in her new abode no cash hand outs etc but would make it clear she is welcome back

I’m going to encourage you to do nothing much at all until after you’ve spent some time with your brother @Moomoola - you need that time for you and DS, plus you can get all the deets from your bro.

Glad that your DH got off his arse and did something himself rather than just barking orders at you!
It’s not something I would’ve personally recommended but fuck it, it’s done now and if it shook some stuff up in the other household then perhaps he’s right to have done it (just don’t expect an immediate result, stuff might need to rumble about in the other family before it reaches a crescendo/dies off like a damp squib).

Obvs I cannot know anything about the other family but from my interactions with many other parents of ROGD kids and my own family situation I would say it’s possible that X’s parent’s alcoholism could preexist and is a driving factor in X’s behaviour (trans identity is an excellent tool in a subconscious power/attention grab) or mum’s mental health is wobbly because frankly, dealing with this controlling shit is enough to make any of us have a breakdown!
While it’s a hard thing to admit our family systems and our own selves (as parents and as partners in relationships our children observe) do, in many cases, play a role, so I’m sure the family dynamics in the other household are complicated and not much of a happy glitter family underneath the rainbow veneer.

Please try to take it easy on the wine though - I absolutely understand the desire to find refuge in a nice vino at the end of a stressful day but it is so easy to tip into reliance - besides, while it deffo makes the evenings nicer it can make the mornings far worse!

Are you managing to get a bit of exercise in? A swim at the local leisure centre is a great way to shake some cobwebs off and involves an enforced no-phone period. I very much recommend!

If DH is insistent on packing up DD’s stuff and dropping it off, I would consider dropping it at an intermediary place - with a neutral friend or relative.
That way DD will have to interact with another adult in a mature manner (turning up to collect) rather than being able to hole up inside X’s mum’s house and have it all conveniently delivered, reinforcing their bunker mentality.

Age 17 you can't legally march her home. OK I'm in Scotland where 17 year olds go iff to university but even in England I suspect a court would side with her choosing her place if abode.
Time to give her less headspace and get on with your life and look after your son.
Id be frustrated and angry with x too in your place but at her age there is little you can do. Also your house sounds a sad mopey place at the moment. Mentally reframe it as her moving away and start getting on with stuff and doing stuff you and your son enjoy

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4116061-my-16yo-ds-and-his-girlfriend-and-her-mum?page=1

here’s the first part of the Australian thread. there are three parts I think. Crossing my fingers your can resolve things with your daughter.

I have followed this post since the start. You sound like a lovely mum . I really hope it gets better for you all soon.
But realistically she will probably take a few years to realise you are not the bad guys . My sister moved in with me when she was 17 . She had 6 years of ignoring my parents and making bad decisions. Ignoring all advise. Then re built her relationship with our parents and it's much better then ever .
Maybe just go back to work and try to make home life for you and your ds the best you can . She will come round eventually. She probably just needs time and space.
And like others have said if you give her no ammunition to make you the bad guys then she may move on from it all.

Hi Moomoola 🍫☕️
I really think you should book those flights and spend some really good quality time with ds (and dh if you can get him to come).
Sending love and strength

I think it got deleted because reasons, can't quite remember.

I do remember that thread but not enough about it in detail to search.

Can someone link to the Australian thread where a girl manipulated a teenage boy for about a year? I can't remember enough details to find it but think it would be helpful for the OP to read. I seem to remember it is a few threads but if she just reads the OPs posts it shouldn't be too bad.

They both have you dancing a merry tune. I wonder is it time to write some stuff down in a letter.

You will always love her unconditionally
She will always have a home with you. The door is always open.
You miss her terribly.

However
You feel her rx with X is not healthy bordering on coercive (give examples of why you think this - never being left alone, being isolated from friends and family etc)
You are worried about the choices she is making that will impact her future

And
How her behaviour and choices are impacting on you, how this feels for you (verging on cruel).

How you need to protect yourself a bit. Feel like you willbe accused of something no matter what you say or do. No win situation. So ball is in her court. If she wants a rx with you, she needs to build it. You will follow, but cant live on tenterhooks for ever.

While I agree that your DH has put a lot of the pressure on you, him saying, "it's time to come home. This is coercion" is spot on. It's stark reality. I'm beginning to wonder if your daughter almost wishes you would show up and force her to come back home. Not with violence or yelling but with a calm, united front saying, "you're coming home now."

It's the constant "give me time, give me time" which is leaving you dangling, and the previous undercurrent of getting you to split with DH and all would then be fine. I now honestly think had you done so, there would then have been 'something else' as an issue and another herculean task to prove to her she's most important, however you would then have understandably be dealing with the fall out from a break up, and have been significantly vulnerable to any demands.
I think DH is right in this.
DH says slow and love isn’t working, we are being played ( as is DD).He would like to say,’we love you, and you always have a home, but here’s your stuff.’
I sadly think dd, x, x dm see you all as weak (sorry if this sounds horrible!) and they can do whatever they want and you will always be there on tenterhooks, doing whatever you are told.
Still wishing you all strength and a resolution soon.

I can't believe this is still going on for you @Moomoola.
You're seeing how X is ruling the roost in her home, but wonder if you can see how X and DD by extension are also ruling the roost in your home and aren't even there?
Everyone in your family have had their life turned upside down by X and DD and it seems everything you do or say still has to be contemplated with how dd would react or be affected by it.
At the beginning I honestly had high levels of sympathy for her, but I've really started to lose that now, and think she is just as manipulative and cruel as X and Xs mum.
The audacity to tell you you need to take this other woman's feelings in to consideration after all they've put you through?!

No one should have to go through this.

I've no sage advice, as frankly I probably tell my DD that I love her, but she's behaving like a fucking brat.

As for the mother, I'd do EVERYTHING in my power to ruin her life. The grooming b*tch.

As I said, no sage advice .

Sorry but this made me chuckle. My wardrobe of baggy blokes jumpers would be perfect for this.