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Original poster

Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

990 replies

Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
MumOfYoungTransAdult · 28/03/2023 08:29

DS v excited to see uncle - I’m really excited that it’s just the 2 of us actually!

That's great! Flowers

Original poster
Moomoola · 28/03/2023 08:21

Thank you delphinium am so tempted to ask if she’s up for a meeting. But you’re right, that’s nice with no pressure.
DH still says tell mum we will tell her landlord/ work etc. I still don’t think this will work. it seems if whatever scenario I mentally run through, whether I call DD or don’t, X will use it.

redbird no I hadn’t, but now you mention it..I know a few!
I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with so many people like that.
restarining oredr is worrying me - do you mean they will ask for one against us?! I will certainly get a recording app.

thanks guys. Im getting on with other stuff so that’s good. And DS v excited to see uncle - I’m really excited that it’s just the 2 of us actually!

Thanks. I am aware Im burbling. Can’t burble so much to my poor old chums!

OP posts:
Brefugee · 28/03/2023 08:20

I text (WhatsApp) my DCs (older than yours, OP, and left home) and also my mum (different country) every day that i love them. Just "good morning, i love you"

come rain or shine - we don't have issues with each other - but even if we did, I'd keep up doing that, unless and until they asked me to stop. And that would be hard, but I'd stop.

Strength to you. It is hard, and hopefully she will see that you're not a monster. Sooner rather than later. But never give up hopel

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 28/03/2023 08:16

By the way, did you get to speak to the school about communicating with you?

Keeping normal adult lines of communication open is a good idea, so it's not all through two silly teenage girls.

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 28/03/2023 08:01

When DH telephoned the mum, she was v civil, giving DH the dads number and agreeing to meet with us.

Your DH needs to stay civil and not rise to the melodrama. X does not control your or DH's access to her parents, however much she may want to, neither does DD, and "we can meet and resolve things" is just playing at being grown up. Yes of course you can meet, but it's not going to "resolve" anything (don't say that last bit to her)

DH could give things a bit of time to calm down, then contact the dad to arrange a meeting with him. Maybe just the fathers in a pub. Not sure what outcome DH hopes for, but also don't see why they shouldn't have a conversation, sound out how the father feels about all this.

And yes, a loving little message for DD would be fine.

Redbird87 · 27/03/2023 23:15

The gf is clearly spinning a narrative. Have you ever heard of a crybully? It's when one of these queen bee types behaves like every worst stereotype of a toxic high school girl (which she is) and turns herself into the victim of every situation she goads others into.

I've dealt with so many people like that, the best thing you can do is protect yourself by recording future conversations. Have a record of every interaction for when the restraining order comes, because that's what this narrative is leading to.

Upload it (to private) on YouTube or something if your words are ever turned on you again.

In the meantime, let the situation cool down. She wanted time, so give it to her. Don't wait with baited breath, don't let her run things. GF wants a dramatic soap opera. Be the calm. By virtue of not being completely emotionally exhausting, you'll be the port in the storm once gf decides to turn on her.

Delphinium20 · 27/03/2023 22:57

What about just a sweet, simple text like, "Love you. Just wanted to tell you that. No need to reply."

Original poster
Moomoola · 27/03/2023 22:48

Thank you redbird
haven’t called or texted since Thursday. Seems ages!
keep going over what happened. And wondering what to do next. I’m currently letting it go slack as suggested.

When DH telephoned the mum, she was v civil, giving DH the dads number and agreeing to meet with us.
X called immediately and said how DHs call had stressed her mum out, but also said we could meet and resolve etc. so grown up.
then DD texted that the mums scared, she’s scared, X is scared, she was terrified DH would turn up at the airport and yell.
She now needs time to recover.

am v nervous that DD is being fed ‘go no contact with your parents’ stuff.
sorry, nothing positive to contribute, just mulling. Again!

OP posts:
Redbird87 · 27/03/2023 22:31

It was really thoughtful of you to have a conversation about this kind of abuse with her, even if she ended up falling into a coercive relationship.

Original poster
Moomoola · 26/03/2023 10:36

Good idea re Nokia, scrollingand clogso funny that they are trendy again!

nitdavidtennent yes, I think it’s much more controlling than I thought.
am reading the Australian thread, what an amazing mum, and dr ramani etc.

but I know how hard it is once you are in a controlling relationship to even know you are in one.

im letting the line go slack as suggested. It was the hardest thing not to call her last night.
her friend got into a controlling relationship. I tried to educate her then. I’m wondering if I do text her one day I say something like,’remember how sally cut off all her friends etc, and we said a healthy relationship is etc etc’.

she thinks she is making a bid for freedom. Said since leaving she been to a concert ( I arranged) and had a holiday on her own terms (brothers with no money), got into college( ! Where?).
so hurtful.
DS doesn’t want to contact her,or talk about her. he changes the convo to something silly. Doesn’t want to know about trans stuff.
she texted him when she left and he texted back,’ they’re not that bad’
Awww.

This thread is a thing of beauty, btw. So many wise and thoughtful comments, it’s valuable way beyond the trans-specific stuff.
this. I’d be in bits without you all.

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 25/03/2023 17:28

Does your DS ever text your DD? Just the two of them? My heart broke hearing his pain of losing his big sister.

Jellycats4life · 25/03/2023 14:59

I suspect that if you hadn't mentioned DS, the fact you invited her at all would have triggered something. They're embroiled in fighting with you.

I agree with this. She was angry that you mentioned her brother but she was also angry that you were breezily failing to acknowledge the disconnect between you.

Because to act like there was no disconnect, no fundamental clash between your standpoint and hers, doesn’t give her the ammunition she needs to keep hating you.

I agree that you need to protect your own boundaries and your own mental health as this rumbles on.

NotDavidTennant · 25/03/2023 13:49

I suspect when your DD says "respect my boundaries" she really means "don't put pressure on me to do things that will displease x".

She is in a controlling relationship and appeasing x will be foremost in her thoughts when responding to you.

TheClogLady · 25/03/2023 11:16

I agree re: a Nokia ‘burner’. Just stick a tenner top up on it for emergencies and tell DD to keep it switched off. They have a enormous battery life compared to a smartphone!

Save the numbers in it using your initials
(D. U. B for dad, uncle, brother) and then save your own number as ICE (In Case of Emergency) and a charity helpline (eg Womens Aid) as SOS.

Save the number in your own phone so if you ever get a text or call you know where it’s coming in from but continue to text her normal number as usual. Don’t text or call the burner at all.

DD can stick it in the bottom of old box or bag, switched off and if X ever finds it DD can just say ‘oh, it’s just an old one that I keep around in case my current phone breaks’.

It’s just a back up plan and having it gives your DD a way back off the wobbly diving board.

This thread is a thing of beauty, btw. So many wise and thoughtful comments, it’s valuable way beyond the trans-specific stuff.

I hope you have a wonderful holiday and that being at your old home brings you comfort.
Motherloss is profound xx

ScrollingLeaves · 25/03/2023 10:58

Re: the telephone

You could get her an old-fashioned Nokia 3310 which are so good they are still being made. (I still have one as they are so small and fit in any pocket and you don’t have to worry about dropping it out on a walk etc.) You could keep it topped up for her on pay-as-you-go.

www.nokia.com/phones/en_gb/nokia-3310

Original poster
Moomoola · 25/03/2023 09:13

Thankyou bornblonde that means a lot.
tallisker yes Wednesday another incredibly insightful post! I think you are spot on too. I need to help her step back with grace and coolness.

yes, there is a lovely detransitioner on you tube who suggests being less introspective, self centred and to go out and meet people, get a hobby or sport. very brave, Total respect. And to the poster here who detransed. What a journey. Have a hug.

thank you for the encouragement mum it’s hard because first thing DS asked was, ‘will DD Come? She won’t will she?’ 💔first visit to see bro in the family home without mum or DD. A lot of treats for us both I think.

I need a break from DH and his emotions. He is mulling over the suggestions here and planning to scare the mum into persuading X to give up DD. I am concerned though that X knows she has us over a barrel as you’ve mentioned. I’d like to go all eastenders on her ass. ( !).pretty sure it won’t work.
he says thanks for the help. He’s well impressed with mumsnet.
letter and phone are great suggestions, he’s been wanting to write. He doesn’t think she’d be able to hide a phone in a small flat.
and so it goes. He did say he thinks it helping us 3 be closer.
thank you all.

OP posts:
BornBlonde · 24/03/2023 18:47

Another person sending you a HH & hoping DD comes to her senses soon.

TalliskerMcSpeculate · 24/03/2023 11:30

wednesday your diving board analogy is spot on

MumOfYoungTransAdult · 24/03/2023 10:33

What I mean is - try not to fret about how much power X and her family might have. As @wednesdaynamesep says, don't worry about X at all! Centre DD and the relationship that you and DH and DS can have with her because that's where you all have influence.

You and DH have more power than you think you do. It's a slow, gradual, solid kind of power. The power of being there, being reliable, being engaged, seeing the bigger picture, standing by her. A power that doesn't always get immediate visible results. But even if you don't always have confidence in that power it's still there.

You are building up your power by going on holiday with DS as normal and showing DD that she is welcome. You can't solve her conflict of loyalty with X but you are showing that in a loving relationship there is room for balance and trust. You are going with DS because you love him and he depends on you too, and you are going away yourself because that is healthy, and you will still be there for her afterwards even though she has chosen to stay home with X. You haven't stomped off in a temper or accused her of choosing X over you or threatened her with dire consequences. Your DH is building up his power by getting more involved (and maybe he's a bit of a bull in a china shop but that's OK too.)

It shows how important that holiday is by how conflicted you have been about it, how hard it was to decide and book. That must have taken real strength and courage.

Look forward to your holiday, you earned it!

wednesdaynamesep · 24/03/2023 08:56

ScrollingLeaves · 24/03/2023 08:10

Have a lovely holiday, Moomoola. Try to entirely let go of all the worry about this while you are away. You have been a bulwark for your whole family all this time.

I second this. Do try to let it go and laugh and relax.

An add on. Personally, I wouldn't worry or give any thought to x at all. X might be damaged, might have had a horrific childhood etc, but right now she is not your problem to worry about. When you speak or act, it's for your DD and your family. You don't have to struggle to find the words that help x too. You don't have to caveat your feelings around this. If you want to help x AFTER your DD is home and safe and well, that's a different story.

wednesdaynamesep · 24/03/2023 08:54

Somewhere in the earlier rant she said it’s been really hard for her too, but she had to do it or she’d die. Sounds so much like trans script.

It does sound like a script. I wonder if, before leaving, she envisaged the kudos she'd get from this community by actually doing it? That that was appealing. And then school even validated it. It's quite horrific: even the adults colluding to leave no wriggle room for regret or second thoughts.

It's like a kid who foolishly clambers to the highest diving board bolstered by everyone cheering him on - enjoying the accolades and being the brave one - then faces the dizzying reality of height and fear when on the edge of the board and looking down. The crowd yelling "Do it, do it" - knowing if he jumps he'll get cheers, but if he turns back it'll be jeers and laughter and he'll be mocked and painted a coward.

This is why detransitioners who go public are so unbelievably brave.

Your DDs escape is your home, your support, her family.

I wonder if the attempt to apologise, the admission it has been hard etc is a glimmer of a sign that there might be some regret in there but she can't see a way yet to back away from the edge of the board?

ScrollingLeaves · 24/03/2023 08:10

Have a lovely holiday, Moomoola. Try to entirely let go of all the worry about this while you are away. You have been a bulwark for your whole family all this time.

Original poster
Moomoola · 24/03/2023 07:33

Re reading this many times over! Just to say thank you

OP posts:
Original poster
Moomoola · 23/03/2023 22:46

I can’t tell you how much your messages mean to me.
DH came in and said he’d imagined that DD had come home and he was so happy. I’m so sad, we both are.
I’ll leave the texting now, you are right, it’s only feeding drama.
I’ve said she’s welcome to come and she’s said she loves me but will take it slowly.
Somewhere in the earlier rant she said it’s been really hard for her too, but she had to do it or she’d die. Sounds so much like trans script.
i haven’t shown rant to DH yet, I think it would be a bit too much at the moment. Though this may be selfish, I’m not sure I can handle his sad reaction!
delphinium that’s exactly it - I’m sure she’s being persuaded to cut us off. I can’t risk that. Ill not text so much, but I think you’re right, there’s a sad child in there who isn’t sure about what she’s doing. I agree X is damaged and she and mum have all my sympathies, but.
It must be affecting DS too as we are now self conscious about losing him and being over attentive if you know what I mean.
justme DH read that last night and was moved. We get a lot of emails from support groups. So I know we’re not alone.
watched black books last night with DS where Bill Bailey leaves ‘home’ - the book shop. painfully accurate! Wonder what DS made of it.
So over this. Love to everyone going through similar. And it seems so many parents are.

OP posts:
Delphinium20 · 23/03/2023 17:10

I just got a long ranting text where I'm basically manipulative for mentioning DS.

This* *is very telling. Your DD does feel bad and knows on some level she's hurting her DB.

Keep up the communication, but also have your boundaries of respect...looks like she apologized when she overstepped. Also, keep inviting her places but give her firm timeline to commit.

Good luck, momma, I'm so sorry this is happening but feel good that she hasn't cut you off. That does happen in some families. Keep the doors open.